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Thread: pH up to 9.6 (due to Sodium Hydroxide)

  1. #16
    Administrator brewmaster15's Avatar
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    Default Re: pH up to 9.6 (due to Sodium Hydroxide)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dudley Eirich View Post
    As a PhD scientist, I am a reasonable chemist. If the pH does get that high, I would first try using an aging barrel (with pump) and lowering the pH with muriatic acid. If the municipality is using sodium hydroxide to raise the pH, simply aging the water will probably not lower the pH sufficiently to get it down into the safe range. Using muriatic acid to lower the pH will neutralize the sodium hydroxide and produce sodium chloride, i.e. table salt, so your total dissolved solids (TDS) will increase. Neither of these should have a long-lasting negative effect on discus. The lower the target pH, the more salt and and higher levels of TDS you will generate, so, if you want to go from a pH above 9.0 to your current pH value of about 7.5, it may require adding quite a bit of muriatic acid. If you want to keep your dissolved solids low for breeding purposes, then you might want to target a pH above 8.0, but you will need to slowly acclimate your fish to the higher pH value. After lowering the pH with muriatic acid, you should check the pH after aging for 24 hours. If it is stable, you may not need to actually age the water, but can simply use the aging barrel to adjust pH to the desired value.
    Thanks Dudley! I'm glad my chemistry was not rusty. Thanks for confirming.

    al
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  2. #17
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    Default Re: pH up to 9.6 (due to Sodium Hydroxide)

    thank you so much for the info guys! i will def be passing this onto others in my area as well!!

  3. #18
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    Default Re: pH up to 9.6 (due to Sodium Hydroxide)

    Quote Originally Posted by brewmaster15 View Post
    Thanks Dudley! I'm glad my chemistry was not rusty. Thanks for confirming.

    al
    Al, I thought that your answer was a very good one but wanted to give you a bit of support and a plus provide some added information. Since we discus fan(atic)s deal a lot with water, pH, and TDS, the more water chemistry one knows, the better. By the way, you do a great job of providing solid advice as well as sharing you knowledge, plus you do it with patience and gentleness, and that is important, especially with newbies. Thank you!

  4. #19
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    Default Re: pH up to 9.6 (due to Sodium Hydroxide)

    It always bothers me when municipalities make dramatic changes to the characteristics of their water. There are many uses for municipal water and the demands vary depending on whether the end user is a residence or an industry. Those who love tropical fish know the importance of providing a healthy and stable water environment, but industries also have similar requirements. If this municipality is really going to raise the pH up to 9.6, there could be unforeseen consequences for industries that depend on the water supply for cooling, steam generation, or as make-up water for a particular formulation. pH values in that high range can speed up undesirable chemical reactions that could result in equipment failures or end products that don't meet specifications.

  5. #20
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    Default Re: pH up to 9.6 (due to Sodium Hydroxide)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dudley Eirich View Post
    Al, I thought that your answer was a very good one but wanted to give you a bit of support and a plus provide some added information. Since we discus fan(atic)s deal a lot with water, pH, and TDS, the more water chemistry one knows, the better. By the way, you do a great job of providing solid advice as well as sharing you knowledge, plus you do it with patience and gentleness, and that is important, especially with newbies. Thank you!
    Thank you very Much Dudley!!
    AquaticSuppliers.com Freeze Dried BlackWorms and other foods your Discus will Love!!!


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  6. #21
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    Default Re: pH up to 9.6 (due to Sodium Hydroxide)

    Flint, Michigan has been in the news lately because they switched the city's water source to the Flint River, which apparently has a lower pH and is causing elevated levels of lead. Everything I read on this subject indicates that targeting a pH of 8.0 by the addition of Sodium Hydroxide is adequate to prevent metals corrosion.

    Here is an article on the problem in Flint that discusses pH:

    http://michiganradio.org/post/flint-...t-river-switch

    I have well water, so I'm not subjected to these changes in the water... but well water has its disadvantages and challenges too. Nitrates, pH swing, and bacteria, to name a few.

  7. #22
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    Default Re: pH up to 9.6 (due to Sodium Hydroxide)

    What do you guys think about ph8.6?

  8. #23
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    Default Re: pH up to 9.6 (due to Sodium Hydroxide)

    Quote Originally Posted by DJW View Post
    Kyla, I would ask the chemist at the meeting if the pH will be really that high. It doesn't sound right. The city of Portland, Oregon targets a pH of 7.8 to 8.0 to control lead.

    I use a 200gpd RO, for other reasons. If pH is was the only problem, and I had to choose between RO and muriatic acid, I would probably go with acid in a barrel or IBC. To produce 600 gallons/week of RO you will be wasting about three times that much down the drain, which will increase your water bill (if its metered there).

    NaOH will also effect the GH and KH... maybe the chemist can address that as well.
    I live in Portland, and I have been told that they target 8.1 w/ NaOH to prevent lead pipes from leaching into the water. However, when on the standard water source, which is Bull Run (very low TDS and KH), the water is pH 6.8 by the time it hits my tap, and is very stable thereafter (decreases about .2 pH to 6.6 over 24 hours). You may never see anywhere near 9.3 out of your tap.

    Good luck to you!!

  9. #24
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    Default Re: pH up to 9.6 (due to Sodium Hydroxide)

    just to follow-up on this thread, our test phase is complete and my city is planning to add the sodium hydroxide to the water supply city-wide in july 2017 (last i heard). i think they are still aiming for the 9.6ph range but the employee i spoke to at the city said the ph level out of the tap might change a little depending how far away each home is from the water plant itself.

    i obtained a water sample containing sodium hydroxide from the city to experiment with and when i first tested it this was the starting result:



    after aging the water with an airstone this is where it levelled out at:



    many of the local aquarists here arent ready for this change, unfortunately (they dont seem concerned about the ph swings at all), but im def not taking chances with my fish. ive downsized my hobby in anticipation and have set up a large aging barrel for regular wc - all thanks to the kind folk here who helped me to better understand my water chemistry. this forum has been an invaluable source of quality info and support.
    Last edited by Kyla; 04-16-2017 at 08:48 PM.

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