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Thread: Does light matter? You be the judge

  1. #16
    Registered Member rickztahone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does light matter? You be the judge

    Quote Originally Posted by SMB2 View Post
    To bad your fish make such poor subjects! Seriously, that is a beautiful tank.

    One thing I noticed about the images with flash, there seems to be much more backscatter. This is a real problem with strobes and UW photography. In that setting it can be corrected by angling the flash/strobe outward. I wonder if that would work on the tank, not shooting the flash straight down.
    Bare flash doesn't make matters any easier either. I've tried it with strobes facing out and I still get this problem.

    I want to try matts suggestion and I may try moving them around more as well Stan and see what the change depicts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Discus-n00b View Post
    Maybe the tank should be cleaner and water more polished! LOL just kidding. It's hard to avoid, I think you are going to hit it no matter what in an aquarium. I don't usually worry about it, I always take it out in post. A simple dust and scratches filter in photoshop will usually take care of it, and you can clone the larger particles and particles on the fish itself.
    I normally work the files when actually doing a shoot, but for this exercise I chose not to. There are a few things I would have tweeked in post though.

    Click here to view my 75g Acrylic Tank w/ Bean Animal Overflow with 40g Sump Thread

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  2. #17
    Registered Member Discus-n00b's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does light matter? You be the judge

    Oh I know Ricardo, just pointing out that it's a very fixable problem when you get backscatter. When going through your pictures, for anyone reading this and learning, don't toss them just because they have speckles and what appears to be dust all in the water. Learn some basic post processing and remove this, simple fix! What you want to be grading your photo on, and picking it out of the group for is the lighting on the fish. Everything around it can usually be removed/fixed/edited to look normal.
    -Matt


  3. #18
    Registered Member rickztahone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does light matter? You be the judge

    Quote Originally Posted by Discus-n00b View Post
    Oh I know Ricardo, just pointing out that it's a very fixable problem when you get backscatter. When going through your pictures, for anyone reading this and learning, don't toss them just because they have speckles and what appears to be dust all in the water. Learn some basic post processing and remove this, simple fix! What you want to be grading your photo on, and picking it out of the group for is the lighting on the fish. Everything around it can usually be removed/fixed/edited to look normal.
    That is a very good point. That is great practice. In fact, if anyone would like RAW files to work with to try to work with post processing, please let me know and I'll start a folder for whomever would like to play around with it.

    Click here to view my 75g Acrylic Tank w/ Bean Animal Overflow with 40g Sump Thread

    Also, click here for my 25 group of discus grow out thread


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  4. #19
    Registered Member Discus-n00b's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does light matter? You be the judge

    I'd be glad to add some as well if need be, I have all of my RAW files going back years. Discus in all sorts of different tanks lol, home tanks NADA show tanks everything. As soon as I clean the Tropheus tank, possibly Sunday, I will set up my flashes and see what I can do using a fill.
    -Matt


  5. #20
    Administrator and MVP Dec.2015 Second Hand Pat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does light matter? You be the judge

    So question for you guys. How do you remove spots etc in the water? Do you clone them out?
    Pat
    Your discus are talking to you....are you listening


  6. #21
    Photo Guru SMB2's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does light matter? You be the judge

    Pat I think I remember you had or were getting LR.
    In the Develop module click (or hit Q), the Spot removal Tool. Then click the Heal option. This will give you a controllable circle over the image that you can adjust to the spot. Click and it will remove the spot. Sometimes it is not to accurate. If you hit H you will see where the sample was taken from and move that around to get what you like.
    Also at the bottom left you will see Visualize Spots. If you check this and move the slider to the right you get a negative that will show you the spots and can remove them on this screen the same way.
    Screen Shot 2015-12-18 at 11.02.28 PM.png

    Screen Shot 2015-12-18 at 11.03.00 PM.png

    Screen Shot 2015-12-18 at 11.11.20 PM.jpg
    Stan

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  7. #22
    Photo Guru SMB2's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does light matter? You be the judge

    Ricardo, you can try this either from the front or with the flash on top of the tank. I have not tried it (on land!) but the principle should be the same. Diffusers make a huge difference as well.

    download.jpeg
    Stan

    SIMPLY DISCUS IS AN OXYMORON

  8. #23
    Registered Member Discus-n00b's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does light matter? You be the judge

    You can Pat. Stan covered you on LR, I work in photoshop. I tend to clone the larger brighter spots out as the other method isn't as effective against them. For all of the rest I use the selection tool, select the area, or cut around the fish and select the rest of the image (everything but the fish) and then apply a "Dust and Scratches" filter (under the filter menu). You can adjust the weight. The higher the number the more they disappear but the more blur you get in the background, which isn't always bad.

    If you want me to expose the dirty truth here goes! Here are two examples of me getting rid of the dreaded backscatter problem. Trash in water or microbubbles, doesn't matter. This is what I do on Thursday/Friday night at the NADA shows when I go to my room at night to get the show fish photos ready for show on Saturday. I catch up on sleep after the trip. Sorry these are a bit small (to me). This was before I got smart and started working in higher resolutions for posting. Top is what came out of the camera, bottom is after edits ready for show/posting/etc. Same old setup, single flash on top.


    -Matt


  9. #24
    Administrator and MVP Dec.2015 Second Hand Pat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does light matter? You be the judge

    Thanks Stan and Matt. Have some practice to do .

    Also Ricardo, you mention a diffuser (or modifier) to diffuse the light. Paul (pcsb23) used gutter guard mounted above the flash. I believe I can find his description of it in my homesteader somewhere.
    Pat
    Your discus are talking to you....are you listening


  10. #25
    Registered Member rickztahone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does light matter? You be the judge

    That's some great light considering that is only one strobe Matt. Do you attribute that to the reflective bottom? I struggle sometimes because of my very white bottom floor. I feel like it absorbs the light and is harder to work with.

    Great examples btw

    Click here to view my 75g Acrylic Tank w/ Bean Animal Overflow with 40g Sump Thread

    Also, click here for my 25 group of discus grow out thread


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  11. #26
    Registered Member rickztahone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does light matter? You be the judge

    Quote Originally Posted by Second Hand Pat View Post
    Thanks Stan and Matt. Have some practice to do .

    Also Ricardo, you mention a diffuser (or modifier) to diffuse the light. Paul (pcsb23) used gutter guard mounted above the flash. I believe I can find his description of it in my homesteader somewhere.
    Pat
    I'm not sure what gutter guard is but I have used regular paper, wax paper, cotton, and a slew of other things.

    Click here to view my 75g Acrylic Tank w/ Bean Animal Overflow with 40g Sump Thread

    Also, click here for my 25 group of discus grow out thread


    http://i3.cpcache.com/product/162117...ht=75&width=75
    Want to look like Al did at his ACA talk with his white Simply Polo shirt?(You can catch Al's awesome Discus talk HERE)
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  12. #27
    Registered Member Discus-n00b's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does light matter? You be the judge

    Ricardo, the tanks had a baby blue colored table cloth under and behind all of them during that show (Atlanta). I think it helped that I was shooting fish in a 20gal rather than something like a 75+. Light was more confined. Also I think it was just that the fish were further back in the tank allowing the light to be in front and over them to bounce off their entire side rather than have it directly over them. The Blue Diamond is at an angle so I had the flash up above and offset to the right a bit. This show area did receive a lot of natural sunlight, I just don't remember when these photos were taken they could of been taken after the sun was down.

    It's just white plastic/vinyl U-Channel basically Ricardo. It can act as a nice bounce or reflector. I've seen people line the top of the tank with a section of this and stick two strobes in either end pointing up. They flash and reflect down into the tank giving some nice even light. It can work Pat. It takes a bit more positioning depending on width of the tank and location of fish than a stand alone and a diffuser on the end that you can move with ease but it definitely can work. Might work better in some aspects with real even light. Think of it doing exactly what a reflective umbrella would do with a flash. The small diffusers IMO are good for tighter shots or individual/smaller fish groups. The rain gutter would do much better for a FTS or for larger groups of fish. Still can work for individuals and gives you a large shooting space to let the fish move in and out of but you may not have the dramatic shadows that you see some of these shots. Some people like it. My vision is to show off the fish first and whats around them is secondary. Photos that have plants/wood/rocks the same brightness as the fish all the way across the photo just aren't as eye catching to me personally, still might be an excellent photo but just that contrast you see in the blue diamond shot above or Ricardo's last photo in the first and second post of this thread really pops the fish against the background. I'd be scared with more of a bounce setup that I would get to much light on the rockwall behind the fish or the silicone in the corners of my shot.
    http://www.lowes.com/pd_12066-322-RW...d=3009950&pl=1

    In hindsight looking at it now I should of cloned out that electrical cord in the blue diamond shot lol and maybe even that heater, shows you how much my post processing has grown in just 3 years.
    Last edited by Discus-n00b; 12-19-2015 at 01:06 AM.
    -Matt


  13. #28
    Registered Member rickztahone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does light matter? You be the judge

    Quote Originally Posted by Discus-n00b View Post
    Ricardo, the tanks had a baby blue colored table cloth under and behind all of them during that show (Atlanta). I think it helped that I was shooting fish in a 20gal rather than something like a 75+. Light was more confined. Also I think it was just that the fish were further back in the tank allowing the light to be in front and over them to bounce off their entire side rather than have it directly over them. The Blue Diamond is at an angle so I had the flash up above and offset to the right a bit. This show area did receive a lot of natural sunlight, I just don't remember when these photos were taken they could of been taken after the sun was down.

    It's just white plastic/vinyl U-Channel basically Ricardo. It can act as a nice bounce or reflector. I've seen people line the top of the tank with a section of this and stick two strobes in either end pointing up. They flash and reflect down into the tank giving some nice even light. It can work Pat. It takes a bit more positioning depending on width of the tank and location of fish than a stand alone and a diffuser on the end that you can move with ease but it definitely can work. Might work better in some aspects with real even light. Think of it doing exactly what a reflective umbrella would do with a flash. The small diffusers IMO are good for tighter shots or individual/smaller fish groups. The rain gutter would do much better for a FTS or for larger groups of fish. Still can work for individuals and gives you a large shooting space to let the fish move in and out of but you may not have the dramatic shadows that you see some of these shots. Some people like it. My vision is to show off the fish first and whats around them is secondary. Photos that have plants/wood/rocks the same brightness as the fish all the way across the photo just aren't as eye catching to me personally, still might be an excellent photo but just that contrast you see in the blue diamond shot above or Ricardo's last photo in the first and second post of this thread really pops the fish against the background. I'd be scared with more of a bounce setup that I would get to much light on the rockwall behind the fish or the silicone in the corners of my shot.
    http://www.lowes.com/pd_12066-322-RW...d=3009950&pl=1

    In hindsight looking at it now I should of cloned out that electrical cord in the blue diamond shot lol and maybe even that heater, shows you how much my post processing has grown in just 3 years.
    yeah, that gutter guard would work for sure. I think the Gary Fong sphere was one of the best smaller modifiers, especially the insert white plastic. I wish I hadn't gotten rid of it.

    Click here to view my 75g Acrylic Tank w/ Bean Animal Overflow with 40g Sump Thread

    Also, click here for my 25 group of discus grow out thread


    http://i3.cpcache.com/product/162117...ht=75&width=75
    Want to look like Al did at his ACA talk with his white Simply Polo shirt?(You can catch Al's awesome Discus talk HERE)
    You can get this and many more items such as T-shirts/Polos/hoodies/cups from our merchandise shop:
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  14. #29
    Registered Member rickztahone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does light matter? You be the judge

    I was wondering if anyone could possibly try to post some examples of shots they have taken with any of these type of setups? I understand that not everyone will have an off camera flash, but you can also do nature light shots and post here

    I'd love to help you take better pictures, and participation/posting is the only way for me to help

    Click here to view my 75g Acrylic Tank w/ Bean Animal Overflow with 40g Sump Thread

    Also, click here for my 25 group of discus grow out thread


    http://i3.cpcache.com/product/162117...ht=75&width=75
    Want to look like Al did at his ACA talk with his white Simply Polo shirt?(You can catch Al's awesome Discus talk HERE)
    You can get this and many more items such as T-shirts/Polos/hoodies/cups from our merchandise shop:
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  15. #30
    Registered Member pamdb33's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does light matter? You be the judge

    What a beautiful setup - one of the nicest looking BB tanks I've ever seen.

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