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Thread: Cross result of Snow White male with Blue Diamond female. See photos.

  1. #16
    Administrator brewmaster15's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cross result of Snow White male with Blue Diamond female. See photos.

    Tony ,

    The ones I got from you are looking the same...Its extremely unexpected and honestly they are looking amazing ...No idea the hows or whys here, but the offspring are looking very interesting!


    al
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  2. #17
    Administrator and MVP Dec.2015 Second Hand Pat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cross result of Snow White male with Blue Diamond female. See photos.

    Very, very interesting. Almost look like snow leopards. Are these snakes by chance? Pattern seems quite fine?
    Pat
    Your discus are talking to you....are you listening


  3. #18
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    Default Re: Cross result of Snow White male with Blue Diamond female. See photos.

    Quote Originally Posted by brewmaster15 View Post
    Tony ,

    The ones I got from you are looking the same...Its extremely unexpected and honestly they are looking amazing ...No idea the hows or whys here, but the offspring are looking very interesting!


    al
    Hi Al, I'm glad they are doing and looking good. One of the ten I kept hasn't developed any spots and I can count up to 11 faint bars on the body. does that mean SS?

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    Registered Member Phillydubs's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cross result of Snow White male with Blue Diamond female. See photos.

    How did Al score some of these when Tony and I share a hometown???!!! Lolol

    It's good to be the forum King!!! Al can you post pics of yours ?

  5. #20
    Registered Member rickztahone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cross result of Snow White male with Blue Diamond female. See photos.

    Quote Originally Posted by deliana View Post
    Hi Al, I'm glad they are doing and looking good. One of the ten I kept hasn't developed any spots and I can count up to 11 faint bars on the body. does that mean SS?
    Yes

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  6. #21
    Administrator brewmaster15's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cross result of Snow White male with Blue Diamond female. See photos.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phillydubs View Post
    How did Al score some of these when Tony and I share a hometown???!!! Lolol

    It's good to be the forum King!!! Al can you post pics of yours ?
    "Forum King" lol! My first new discus in 3 years Saw them when Tony listed them here on SD for sale and really wanted to see how they would turn out...they had hints of color and SS when they were posted. Tony did an awesome job raising these..He kept 10, and I have the rest to grow out.

    I really like this group of juvies.....they have alot of potential and in my mind definitely raise alot of questions. Its what I love best about the hobby..its not what you know that is interesting.....its what you don't know and can learn.
    Al
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  7. #22
    Registered Member Phillydubs's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cross result of Snow White male with Blue Diamond female. See photos.

    Hahaha I am just joking around Al! Lucky score for you, so very cool! What size are yours and how big? Any pics?

    About how old are they?

    They def are unique and interesting. How many do you have al and what set up?

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    Default Re: Cross result of Snow White male with Blue Diamond female. See photos.

    I am beginning to wonder wether the Blue Diamond you are referring to is actually a Blue Scorpion (barless Snakeskin )... would love to see pictures of the parents.

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    Default Re: Cross result of Snow White male with Blue Diamond female. See photos.

    Quote Originally Posted by bornlooser View Post
    I am beginning to wonder wether the Blue Diamond you are referring to is actually a Blue Scorpion (barless Snakeskin )... would love to see pictures of the parents.
    The parents

    photo.jpgphoto.jpg

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    Default Re: Cross result of Snow White male with Blue Diamond female. See photos.

    Quote Originally Posted by rickztahone View Post
    Yes
    thank you Ricardo.

  11. #26
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    Default Re: Cross result of Snow White male with Blue Diamond female. See photos.

    Quote Originally Posted by Second Hand Pat View Post
    Very, very interesting. Almost look like snow leopards. Are these snakes by chance? Pattern seems quite fine?
    Pat
    Hello Pat, it looks like that there probably is a handful of snakeskins among the batch.

  12. #27
    Registered Member Rod's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cross result of Snow White male with Blue Diamond female. See photos.

    Quote Originally Posted by brewmaster15 View Post
    Tony ,

    The ones I got from you are looking the same...Its extremely unexpected and honestly they are looking amazing ...No idea the hows or whys here, but the offspring are looking very interesting!


    al
    Hi Al,

    Hope you don't mind if i throw my opinion in here.

    When you cross a blue diamond with another discus, the defining features of the blue diamond are lost on the fry and they will have a "normal" wild type pattern. i.e. stress bars and an incomplete blue pattern that allows primary body color to show. Quite often these crosses will develop a lot of secondary pattern coverage as they grow, but it would be more in line with a cobalt or solid turk pattern, rather than the pure solid patterning of the blue diamond.

    When you cross a snow white with another discus you create all white based progeny, but in heterozygous form. With this particular gene, the het form will express white, but with a diminished capacity. The snow white does not express any pattern in pure form, but this is not the case for the white het. The white het allows for a pattern on top of the white base and this pattern depends largely on the base pattern of the fish you cross it to.

    In this case of a blue diamond, as is well known the blue diamond gene is recessive so it will not express in the F!. Since the blue diamond gene is not "activated" the regular wild form pattern will be able to express itself on top of the white base.

    Interestingly, if you were to breed a blue diamond back to one of these fry, about 50% will inherit the white base and of those, 50% will also have the blue diamond pattern. A nice combination indeed!! With these f2's you can breed it back with another blue diamond and you should produce 50% white/blue diamonds and 50% pure blue diamonds. While whites are not true breeding, they are very much controllable!

    Rod
    Last edited by Rod; 01-17-2016 at 08:05 AM. Reason: grammar

  13. #28
    Registered Member Keith Perkins's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cross result of Snow White male with Blue Diamond female. See photos.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rod View Post
    Hi Al,

    Hope you don't mind if i throw my opinion in here.
    I'm a long way from being Al, but personally there isn't anyone I'd rather see throw their opinion in on a genetics question.
    President - North American Discus Association

  14. #29
    Registered Member nc0gnet0's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cross result of Snow White male with Blue Diamond female. See photos.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rod View Post
    Hi Al,

    Hope you don't mind if i throw my opinion in here.

    When you cross a blue diamond with another discus, the defining features of the blue diamond are lost on the fry and they will have a "normal" wild type pattern. i.e. stress bars and an incomplete blue pattern that allows primary body color to show. Quite often these crosses will develop a lot of secondary pattern coverage as they grow, but it would be more in line with a cobalt or solid turk pattern, rather than the pure solid patterning of the blue diamond.

    When you cross a snow white with another discus you create all white based progeny, but in heterozygous form. With this particular gene, the het form will express white, but with a diminished capacity. The snow white does not express any pattern in pure form, but this is not the case for the white het. The white het allows for a pattern on top of the white base and this pattern depends largely on the base pattern of the fish you cross it to.

    In this case of a blue diamond, as is well known the blue diamond gene is recessive so it will not express in the F1. Since the blue diamond gene is not "activated" the regular wild form pattern will be able to express itself on top of the white base.

    Interestingly, if you were to breed a blue diamond back to one of these fry, about 50% will inherit the white base and of those, 50% will also have the blue diamond pattern. A nice combination indeed!! With these f2's you can breed it back with another blue diamond and you should produce 50% white/blue diamonds and 50% pure blue diamonds. While whites are not true breeding, they are very much controllable!

    Rod
    I would like to add that a good portion of Snow whites on the market today are the result of breeding for other strains. Meaning something like taking two red whites and breeding them together (a small portion of the progeny will be SW's , but the main goal was more red whites etc). As a result it is very common for a Snow white to also carry a hidden heterogenous gene such as golden or Pigeon blood.

    Even more a a curiosity to me is the fact that when Al stopped over to pick some of these fry/juvies up, they were all SS. Would really like to know if this is just a coincidence and if all the nine bar fry had been sold prior to Al's arrival, or if all the fry were SS's.

    In this case of a blue diamond, as is well known the blue diamond gene is recessive so it will not express in the F1. Since the blue diamond gene is not "activated" the regular wild form pattern will be able to express itself on top of the white base.

    I am still not convinced that the BD gene is completely recessive in the Mendel sense. I know I have several cross's that carry the BD gene in the heterogenous form that exhibit homogenous BD poop.


    -Rick
    Ex-President-North American Discus Association-NADA
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  15. #30
    Registered Member rickztahone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cross result of Snow White male with Blue Diamond female. See photos.

    Very interesting thread on many fronts. Subscribed.

    Click here to view my 75g Acrylic Tank w/ Bean Animal Overflow with 40g Sump Thread

    Also, click here for my 25 group of discus grow out thread


    http://i3.cpcache.com/product/162117...ht=75&width=75
    Want to look like Al did at his ACA talk with his white Simply Polo shirt?(You can catch Al's awesome Discus talk HERE)
    You can get this and many more items such as T-shirts/Polos/hoodies/cups from our merchandise shop:
    Cafepress.com

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