300g tank - advice needed for plumbing - sump - pumps.

[david p.]

Hi,

I deciced to start a new project, a 72''x36''x30'' custom made tank. I will use Starphire glass for front and side panels, i hope it looks good with the discus
I'm a planted tank fanatic, i have a couple of tanks, the biggest is a 230L hi-tech tank. But for this project, since i'm new to discus, my plan is to go low-tech to master the discus science, no plants (for now) just manzanita/driftwood.. a lot of it, a little sand on the bottom. I can't convice myself to go barebottom, sorry guys

I have read/search/dig information here and on other forum, but it's kinda going everywhere and at the end of the day my interrogations remains. Maybe i just suck in searching info!! I found enough to start building my 'auto-water change system', i feel it's mendatory to save some time on the long run. Also getting a drip system... i don't want to start a debate here , but i have this on my 230L and it helps ( it does not replace the water change)

First question, should i pierce the back or the bottom of the tank for the overflow ? i read that bottom is risky, but it will look better because you don't see all the piping,etc.. On the other hand, i like the idea of having and external overflow on the back. Does it really make a difference ? is it really that risky on the bottom ? I'm ordering my glass panels this week, i must confirm where to get my overflows, if bottom i'm told it must be tempered glass.

Also, is 2 overflows to much or enough ? i wanted one at each side, with 2 returns in the tank. i have seen similar tank size with 3 overflows, one in the middle.

I'm planning a 75g custom made sump, do you believe the size is enought, i found the '1/3' rule for the sump size, should i go to 100g sump or can i compensate with a higher flow?
For the flow rate, is 5-7 turnaround is enough ? meaning 1500-2100 gph or should i aim at 10x (3000gph) ? I don't plan to over stock the tank, i will start with 5-6 discuss, than see how it goes. there will be other fish (~15-20 cory), probly a school of small fish, some Loricariids. I will see how it goes, but at the end, i would like to have more Discus maybe 10-15, does it seems resonable ? i have seen barebottom tank with tons of them packed, it looks nice, but the bioload (maintenance) is hight. I'm looking at 100% south american (amazonian) fish stock.

any advice would be appreciate to help me in that project, it's my first BIG tank and my first Discus project. i feel i'm stock on some basic question for the tank and filtration design.

David

[rickztahone]

Well first of all, welcome David

I am jealous of your future build.

Ok, as far as just using driftwood and manzanita, that would be fine. Light layer of sand is fine as well. Just remember, the wood itself attracts all kinds of detritus so you have to be extra careful to vacuum out all the nasty stuff that accumulates around it.

Drip system is fine so long as you pick up the detritus. I personally have never liked the idea of a drip system, but there are a few members here that use it. Afriend is one of them and HappyFace is another. Check out their threads.

If you are going to drill and do an overflow, I would definitely suggest a Bean Animal setup. Check out this Synergy overflow that is custom made to run this type of system:
http://synergyreef.com/product/20-sy...reef-overflow/

Pretty cheap considering it can run 2500gph. You can always go larger by increasing the weir length. I chose to do my own out of acrylic and almost go full coast to coast on the weir. You can check out my build thread here:
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...-build-thread)

In this thread I have a video showing how it works:
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...nimal-overflow

A 100g sump would be great for something like this, however, I think a 75g would also do well. Remember, you don't need a skimmer or reactors for discus, so the space isn't as crucial as in a SW setup. Run poret foam and ceramic rings and you will be fine.

Lastly, if you plan on having a large group of discus, purchase ALL of them together, and introduce ALL of them at the same time. No need to QT discus this way and you have your huge group ready from the start. It will be expensive for sure, but you get a little more peace of mind this way. In a 300g w/ a 100g sump you can easily do 25 discus in there and be fine.

Good luck with your project my friend, and again, welcome to SimplyDiscus

[farebox]

What a tank build I would go with SD member rickztahome recommended for the overflow. Good luck and please keep us all updated on your build. I envy you, just wish I could do what you are planning to do. Man I would get twenty one, one species of discus from Hans, about 12 sterbai cories, and 100 cardinal tetras, and two albino bushynose plecos.....Dreaming.

[david p.]

Hi,

Thanks rickztahone. I will go through the links you posted.
Sad day for me, i build a wood frame the same size of the tank and it won't go down the stairs to my basement, i have a 90 degree turn at the bottom of my stairs, i'm missing a few inches to make it !!! i will have to go acrylic and assemble in the basement. It kinda change the scope of work. I never assembled acrylic before, my sump was to be my first try. Not sure i want to risk it on my tank, i barely conviced my wife for that massive tank... if it were to colaspe it don't see myself trying to explain that. I will need to rethink how i want to do that or go smaller (or less big). I asked a couples of quotes to get the pannels, we will see.

As for getting 25 discus, do you mean 25 juvies or adults ? i was planning on getting 5'' discus, they are not cheap. Can i 'grow' juvies in a tank that big ? i read that i should grow them in smaller tank. and since they will be my first discus, i don't want to screw up and kill half of them. Is it possible to get 25 discuss of the same strain in one supply ? i want blood pigeon /checkerboard.

purchase ALL of them together, and introduce ALL of them at the same time.

to do so, they have to be the first in the tank, before the schooling fish, cories, etc. I'm getting nervous

12 sterbai cories, and 100 cardinal tetras, and two albino bushynose pleco

i plan on panda cories, i really like how they behave. i already have a bunch of sterbai in my planted tanks. I was planning on cardinal tetras or green neon tetra, but i fear they (the GNT) are a bit to small and discus may eat them.

i will take my time on this, don't want to make a bad decision.
thanks for your reply

david

[rickztahone]

Hi,

Thanks rickztahone. I will go through the links you posted.
Sad day for me, i build a wood frame the same size of the tank and it won't go down the stairs to my basement, i have a 90 degree turn at the bottom of my stairs, i'm missing a few inches to make it !!! i will have to go acrylic and assemble in the basement. It kinda change the scope of work. I never assembled acrylic before, my sump was to be my first try. Not sure i want to risk it on my tank, i barely conviced my wife for that massive tank... if it were to colaspe it don't see myself trying to explain that. I will need to rethink how i want to do that or go smaller (or less big). I asked a couples of quotes to get the pannels, we will see.

As for getting 25 discus, do you mean 25 juvies or adults ? i was planning on getting 5'' discus, they are not cheap. Can i 'grow' juvies in a tank that big ? i read that i should grow them in smaller tank. and since they will be my first discus, i don't want to screw up and kill half of them. Is it possible to get 25 discuss of the same strain in one supply ? i want blood pigeon /checkerboard.

to do so, they have to be the first in the tank, before the schooling fish, cories, etc. I'm getting nervous


i plan on panda cories, i really like how they behave. i already have a bunch of sterbai in my planted tanks. I was planning on cardinal tetras or green neon tetra, but i fear they (the GNT) are a bit to small and discus may eat them.

i will take my time on this, don't want to make a bad decision.
thanks for your reply

david

So, am I understanding correctly, you already built the glass tank and it didn't fit? If not, can you make the tank just a little smaller to get you that extra inch you need to take it down to the basement?

Acrylic is a great material, but I honestly would not encourage you to build such a massive tank on your own. Any tank under 50g would be a good one to start with to learn, but even with great experience, a tank that size is not easy to make.

As far as getting discus, if you are going to go with a planted tank, then I would recommend discus over 4"+

If you can, you can get a 75 or a 90g tank and grow that group out until they are around 4-5". If you click on my signature, you will see that I did something similar with a group of 25x 1" discus. However, as they grew, I had to keep selling to give the discus room to grow. This alone may encourage you to get a slighter larger tank than my 75g. 100g would probably be ideal for that size group to grow out. Once they hit 4 or 5 inches, transfer them all to the large tank.

Introducing any other fish is a risk, plain and simple. You need to quarantine any incoming fish and observe them for a couple of months. Then, get one of your least liked discus and put it in the tank with all the other QT discus. If it survives for at least 2 weeks, you should be fine to introduce the QT fish to the display tank.

I hope this helps.

[david p.]

Hi,

nothing was purchased yet, i had the quote ready and all, just needed to confirm how many and where i wanted my overflows before i place the order. that's when i decided to try the wood frame, you know the kind of idea that you have at 3am while you sleep... what if it does not fit... duh!! now i'm on hold until i decide what i want. It sucks, cause i was trilled to get that 72x36 tank.

Growing them in a smaller tank, is it just a matter of easier maintenance due to the waste they will generate, or it really impacts their growth and they wont reach their full potential in a 300g ?

QT tank is a must, i already made my mistake on my other tanks and i had my share of dead fish. Easpecially for that tank, QT is mendatory... don't want to lose those discus.

[rickztahone]

Hi,

nothing was purchased yet, i had the quote ready and all, just needed to confirm how many and where i wanted my overflows before i place the order. that's when i decided to try the wood frame, you know the kind of idea that you have at 3am while you sleep... what if it does not fit... duh!! now i'm on hold until i decide what i want. It sucks, cause i was trilled to get that 72x36 tank.

Growing them in a smaller tank, is it just a matter of easier maintenance due to the waste they will generate, or it really impacts their growth and they wont reach their full potential in a 300g ?

QT tank is a must, i already made my mistake on my other tanks and i had my share of dead fish. Easpecially for that tank, QT is mendatory... don't want to lose those discus.

Many will say that your discus will get lost in a 300g tank. Additionally, imagine your water bill when you get it?!? I'd hate to think about it. Its up to you though.

[david p.]

No water bill where i live in Canada. I just went through your thread on your 25 discus... Wow!!

[david p.]

Hi,

the 300g project is officialy postponed. During my search for the tank i wanted, i stumbled on a used 85g Blau tank (rimless, clear glass), it was in perfect condition and a pretty reasonable price. For the money i will save on the tank, i will invest on the equipment for that 85g tank, but also for the futur 72''. I did not want to do compromise on my 72'' project, so i prefer to pospone and get it as i want. I wanted to try many new systems (auto water cahnge, drip system), i will invest on these and try on the 85g. I will even look into a RO system with the money i saved.

I purchased a 40g tank for the sump with the pump, bio bal, ceramic media. i will build the sump today. it will give 125g of water, it might be excessive, but i wanted to have that 'room' in term of fitlration capacity.
Also got a UV sterilizer, it got the 18watt from coralife.

The 85g had the overflow on the bottom of the tank, i removed it since it was all messy, it was used for saltwater, i spent yeasterday evening cleaning the tank and i ordered a new overflow. I know it might not be the best, but i though it was looking good, so i ordered a BX40 overflow (cylinder overflow). If it does not do the job, i will seal the bottom and get a beananimal overflow.

I will be working on my stand today!!!

I'm sad the the project downscale that much, but in a year from now i will have my 65g planted tank (hi tech), my 85g tank and a 300g... don't tell my wife!!!!!
Here's a picture of my 65g tank, it's also a Blau rimless tank. i got 4 angel fish, 13 ruminose, 13 rasbora harlequin, 3 khuli loaches, 3 siamensis algae eater, 15 otocinclus, 2 ancistrus, 1 bumble bee fish, 4-5 corys sterbai, 3 pigmee corys, maybe 5-6 yamato shrimp (the angels ate all the males that were smaller). A lot of fish, but i keep up with the WC. Been running that tank for the past 3 years.
20160213_175410_resized.jpg

i forgot about the tetra serpai in the middle of the picture, it's the first fish i ever bought, he cycled all my tank (3-4 tanks over the years). He must be 4 years old+. i did not even know that these could live that long. i made a lot of mistake, but he survided!!!

i will probably start a tank journal to show you the build and the fishes. i need to find a good supplier that can ship in Quebec province. i found Van discus in Toronto, but i don't know them.

david

[rickztahone]

Too bad about the 300 but a 85g is a respectable size

40g sump will be great. I love mine because I can fit everything in there

[david p.]

how many discus do you think i can fit a the 85g ?

[rickztahone]

how many discus do you think i can fit a the 85g ?

8 comfortably