Tape worms

[Jack L]

I buy all my meds from Jemco. I'll do my last treatment tonight, thank God. Even using alcohol the water on some tanks got cloudy and the glass slimy. I'm sick to death of all the wipe downs and flopping on the bottom WCs. It takes 600 gallons of aged water to do half my tanks which is all I have. I do half the tanks one day and the other half the next.

On several occasions I've seen white strings floating in the water. Even with my glasses on I can't say for sure that they are segmented. I'm thinking that they are decomposing immature tapes, but since nobody who has treated with Prazi has seen what I've seen I'm just guessing. I did loose several BN from bloat.

What symptoms are you seeing in your fish? With tapes you often see no symptoms at all. The rule of thumb is that if the fish show no interest in food or pick it up and spit it out it's hex. If the fish eat but don't gain weight it's round worms.

do you have a microscope?
i found a nice but inexpensive on on craigslist. i was able to see the segments of algae with it.

[LizStreithorst]

If he had a scope he wouldn't have been asking us. It is a good investment although I have never been able to identify hex with my expensive one. Round worms are easy.

[Jack L]

i meant you, unless i confused the thread flow.

"On several occasions I've seen white strings floating in the water. Even with my glasses on I can't say for sure that they are segmented"

i've not have personal experience with tape, so i was just curious. but based on al's article, i'm guessing a magnifying glass may be enough?

[LizStreithorst]

Forgive me. I do have one. When I moved back home I stored it in the barn for several months. It was covered but it got is so dirty I can no longer see anything through it. I'm sure I'd have been able to see if the strings were segmented under the lowest magnification.

I just called the veterinarian who I worked with for many years. He and I are fast friends. He said the scope lady will be coming to his clinic Tuesday. I will take my scope into his place Monday. If I had done this years ago I wouldn't be stuck not knowing now. Thanks for the kick in the arse.

[yogi]

Liz, I doubt your fish have tapeworms if you didn't see any expelled after using prazi. I use prazi once in a while in my tanks against gill flukes. Several years ago I used it and 5 red rose discus I got from Dan at Elite or whatever the company's name was started expelling them all over the place. This was just a couple hours after putting the prazi in the tank. I never saw any white worms in the couple months I had the fish before I used the prazi. These were Wayne's Discus that he was selling and they were eating and growing fine. I just never knew they had tapeworms. I did call Dan to let him know in case any of his customers called to say they were having problems he knew to tell them to use prazi.

About a year and half ago I got some new wilds. After a few weeks I treated them with prazi. Never saw any white worms in the tank before the treatment. All the fish were fine except one. She laid on her side and was just loaded with them they were sticking out her butt and she was breathing real heavy. On every exhale I saw one in her mouth going back and forth. I expected her to be dead in the morning. But she wasn't she was up and fine. It did take her a couple days to resume eating. I still have her.

[mee]

I know for a fact that the Prazi is safe for fry. They say it works for flukes but I don't know how well. Surely someone else here will know or you could ask the folks at Jemco. They have all the answers. I've always used PP for flukes. It's just a single 4 hr treatment and although you have to keep a watch on the tank during treatment. I wouldn't be comfortable using it on small fry.

Picky eaters generally have hex which requires metro (another PITA treatment), If I were you I'd do the Prazi first and wait a week or so after the end of treatment to see if your picky eaters pick up. If not, I'd do the metro. It is also extremely safe. But check with the folks at Jemco. They won't steer you wrong.

BTW, when I have doubts, I will always treat prior to breeding. Small fry who are compromised often never reach their full potential. Also, and this may be overkill, when I treat I treat all fish in all tanks, not just the few showing symptoms. I use the same nets and equipment on all my tanks, and am always moving fish around. My thinking is that the weakest show symptoms but all have been exposed and are likely infected. Hope this helps.

We are on the same page Liz, I like to treat all when I do treat. They fry are still eating like piggies and growing fine. The only slow growing was at my hands since I cut their food to less than half while I tried to get on top of their water quality. Still content with their shape and growth. They are in the 2 inch range, so not too terribly small. Hex = tape worms? BTW, I do have a couple cheap microscopes, but they are a bit of a pain to use and actually get clear images. Unfortunately the only Praziquantel I can find in this country is overpriced, so I will have to order from Jehmco or another online seller.

[Jack L]

Fwiw on scope, I found a universal phone holder on Amazon. Then the phone camera once in place makes a nice way to view, take photo or video and zoom in digitally

[LizStreithorst]

May be not, Jerry. If I did, I sure don't have them any more. I wish I could explain the slimy glass and cloudy water. It will always be a mystery, I guess.

[LizStreithorst]

We are on the same page Liz, I like to treat all when I do treat. They fry are still eating like piggies and growing fine. The only slow growing was at my hands since I cut their food to less than half while I tried to get on top of their water quality. Still content with their shape and growth. They are in the 2 inch range, so not too terribly small. Hex = tape worms? BTW, I do have a couple cheap microscopes, but they are a bit of a pain to use and actually get clear images. Unfortunately the only Praziquantel I can find in this country is overpriced, so I will have to order from Jehmco or another online seller.

No. Hex is a flagellate similar to giardia in dogs and humans. It is treated with metronidazole.

Sorry you're having a hard time finding Prazi. I assumed that you lived in the States.

[mee]

No. Hex is a flagellate similar to giardia in dogs and humans. It is treated with metronidazole.

Sorry you're having a hard time finding Prazi. I assumed that you lived in the States.

OK, understood, flagellate's are sometimes on the gills too right?

I am from Seattle or perhaps better put the NW, as I spent about half my life in Oregon, but also lived a bit in Alaska as a child, and Mexico and Hawaii as a teen. I now live in Japan (not a military brat, just worldly).

[LizStreithorst]

I don't think they are on the gills. As far as I know they only infect the gut. I treat with metro at 400 mg per 10 gallons daily for 12 days. This guy recommends treating for 14 days. The treatments on most metro labels recommend treating at 250 mg prt 10 gallons but the parasites have become resistant to metro at this low dosage. It is extremely safe. When I treat I do big daily WCs. My theory is out with the bad, in with the good, but it's just what I do. It's not set in stone. http://discus-fish-care.blogspot.com...parasites.html

[yogi]

May be not, Jerry. If I did, I sure don't have them any more. I wish I could explain the slimy glass and cloudy water. It will always be a mystery, I guess.

This is just a guess. I believe the prazi kills off some of the bio filter even if it says it doesn't.

[nc0gnet0]

May be not, Jerry. If I did, I sure don't have them any more. I wish I could explain the slimy glass and cloudy water. It will always be a mystery, I guess.

My guess is it is a bacterial bloom brought on by the presence of Sugars in the tank. I used to see this when using the levanasol sold by David Rose ( it was a sugar based pigeon product). Alcohol is a complex sugar. Just my guess.........


-Rick

[mee]

I don't think they are on the gills. As far as I know they only infect the gut. I treat with metro at 400 mg per 10 gallons daily for 12 days. This guy recommends treating for 14 days. The treatments on most metro labels recommend treating at 250 mg prt 10 gallons but the parasites have become resistant to metro at this low dosage. It is extremely safe. When I treat I do big daily WCs. My theory is out with the bad, in with the good, but it's just what I do. It's not set in stone. http://discus-fish-care.blogspot.com...parasites.html

Ordered 25 grams of praziquantel powder today. Should be more than enough. Going to hold off on ordering Metro till after treating with the Prazi, just cause I want to see how much the finicky eaters improve from just the Prazi. Will likely still do the Metro even if all is well, cause again I want to bring the fish to the US squeaky clean. For the record most my fish are very healthy piggies. The finicky two are not wasting away either, just not as plump and vibrant as the others.

Thanks Liz.

[mollyb]

kinda interested to figgur out where you got the tapeworms from. You mentioned this was a tank raised fish from your own system, all cestodes (tapeworm) seem to require an intermediate host before infecting the last host and forming segmented bodies. The intermediary hosts cn be fish, but then these fish never develop the segmented intestinal worm, jut an encysted paracyte in the muscle tissue. I think snails can be an intermediate host for the tapeworms that go segmented in fish. one fish in a tank with tapeworm can infect others, but not to the final stage of the life cycle. just curious, I would treat everything as well. I agree with the bacterial bloom / sugar theory btw.