Water changes for low-tech, and a few other questions.

[~magpie~]

Thanks all, I truly appreciate the input - there is so much good information on this forum. I don't want to be one of "those people" who come on forums and ask advice and then don't listen.... however I know that discus can be kept in planted tanks with the right care. I'm not new to aquariums nor plants, so I am really trying to learn as much as I can to make it work. Adults, light stocking, and my tank temp is currently at 82-83 and everyone is doing well so far. I might get that attachment to increase flow for O2, and will do a prefilter. I will do water changes as recommended. If all else fails, I can tear the tank down and do a thin layer of sand, tons of driftwood and anubias all over the place. But I really don't want to. I just love love love the plants.
Curious about the drip system, though....

[Phillydubs]

Magpie,

Sorry been a crazy weekend and I missed your reply to me here... I didn't mean to confuse you further. My point was that you are so back and forth on what to do and how to care for them both, that is why I reiterated that it had been suggested to try both separately...

No one is saying you can't do it or it hasn't been done and done well... The issues arises in the pure fact that discus are new to you and you are now trying to learn them and take care of them in a tough environment... If I had never played baseball or swung a bat before, would you think it would be in my best interest to start by having a major league pitcher throw me 99MPH fast balls? You see what I am saying? Everyone's concern is that you are ripping the swimmies off and dicing in the deep end without really knowing how to swim... Grasping the concept and researching is one thing and great... Once those fish are tanked and you start to care for them and problems arises and such is when disaster can set in...

If you are adamant about doing this, which it seems you are, just be aware of the pitfalls and be ready to put the time and effort needed to get things going. It sounds like you are ready to buy adults, do water changes and put in the proper care...

It also sounds like you are ready to tear it down should things go south... Do you have another tank that you could pull plants and move them if need be...?

A drip system is nice but not a replacement for water changes... Most only do a small % which isn't enough and the debris and leftover food and poop is still present which is really what corrodes the water, not removing just the water. So even if you had a 100% daily drip, without siphoning and cleaning the substrate, it isn't really doing much. Now if you can combine the two then you may be in business... until then, do your big water changes and good siphoning... make sure you can get in and around the plants as that seems to be the main issue with keeping planted tanks, debris gets all in and around the plants and just sits and rots and hurts the water...

Some use dedicated feeding areas in the tank so the food trys to stay condensed to one area, but even that is tricky...

[~magpie~]

Thanks again, I do understand what you're saying. I looked into the drip method and that is not going to happen. We are currently renters so it would be really difficult. The water changes will be the way to go.

I have another thread open for the transitioning of my tank, and I decided that I am going to at least change my substrate to sand (even though I'm a little nervous about my current fish during the process, but have been assured it will all be ok. ). So when I do that I will rescape some. I'll open up the front of the tank more, space out or maybe even replace the large swords, and either move the wood a little or get another larger single piece (opinion on this?) I have a 30-gallon tank and a 10-gallon tank not currently being used. So those could be very temporary housing should my planted discus tank not work and I need to start over. If it doesn't, my plan will still be not to go totally plantless, but just less rooted plants - a fine sand layer with driftwood and lots of anubias and java ferns as well as floating plants which do a lot to take up the 'bad stuff' from an aquarium.

Do you think that I should get this Eheim replacement for the spray bar to increase gph/surface circulation, or just point it all up toward the surface?
http://www.thatpetplace.com/eshopps-...et-1-2in-3-4in

[~magpie~]

Also, I found another tank I love the look of!

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/10.../531346?page=1

[Phillydubs]

Nice tank however those discus leave somethif to be desired.

[zergling]

In addition to what folks have already suggested, I also recommend:

1) Have ammonia and nitrite test kits ready. Be sure to check the expiration dates on these kits. Test for ammonia and nitrites daily for the first week at least, especially when they get accustomed to their new home and start eating. It's very easy to underestimate how much bio load they bring, and your beneficial bacteria population may or may not be able to keep up initially.

2) Be prepared to do daily 50% water changes or more. Any sign of ammonia or nitrite, do a 50% wc or more.

3) Consider getting Al's freeze dried Australian blackworms. IME, discus are the most finicky eaters I've ever had, and Al's fdbw is the easiest dry food to get them eating.

Just like you, I have years (decades..?) of experience with planted tanks, and turned my 65g into a planted discus tank last year. If I could do it all over, I'd probably have gone bare bottom first for a year or so to focus on learning discus care, then later upgrade to a bigger planted tank.

[Darcon]

Nice tank, which you presented as favorite, but not all plants survive with adult discus, I think. Plants look very gently, adult discus can destroy it a little.

[~magpie~]

Nice tank however those discus leave somethif to be desired.

I honestly was solely looking at the scaping, with a nice wood piece, and plants but lots of open space....

In addition to what folks have already suggested, I also recommend:

1) Have ammonia and nitrite test kits ready. Be sure to check the expiration dates on these kits. Test for ammonia and nitrites daily for the first week at least, especially when they get accustomed to their new home and start eating. It's very easy to underestimate how much bio load they bring, and your beneficial bacteria population may or may not be able to keep up initially.

2) Be prepared to do daily 50% water changes or more. Any sign of ammonia or nitrite, do a 50% wc or more.

3) Consider getting Al's freeze dried Australian blackworms. IME, discus are the most finicky eaters I've ever had, and Al's fdbw is the easiest dry food to get them eating.

Just like you, I have years (decades..?) of experience with planted tanks, and turned my 65g into a planted discus tank last year. If I could do it all over, I'd probably have gone bare bottom first for a year or so to focus on learning discus care, then later upgrade to a bigger planted tank.

Thanks for the input. I have the full water test kit. I actually have a brand new one because a co-worker borrowed my old one when she started up a few new tanks and she replaced mine as a gift.

Good info on the food too - there is a lot out there and I honestly had no idea where to start.

Nice tank, which you presented as favorite, but not all plants survive with adult discus, I think. Plants look very gently, adult discus can destroy it a little.

You probably mean the cabombas? I was just looking at the overall tank design, not individual plants per se. I currently have amazon swords, vals, anubias, java ferns, small chain swords and small crypts and I'm sure they'd all be fine.


In my other thread, someone posted about my tank dimensions, comparing it to one they had that was a bit smaller but not a lot smaller, and he thought that they might not have enough room to stretch out their legs so to speak in mine despite it being 65 gallons. (It's like a 65 tall, only 36" long, 18" deep, 24" tall.)

I think there is so much warning and caution and "don't do it!" here, and then this person's input that I am just about ready to scrap this whole project. I just wanted fish that were new, fun, and exciting wihtout converting to saltwater quite yet. Maybe I just need to rehome all of my current inhabitants and start over with some larger fish and some rope fish, which I adore.
I don't want gourami, I don't really want angels, and don't really want any other SA cichlids (other than discus). Or maybe I just get a large group of bolivians since they're fun and not too aggro. I just loooove discus.

Alternately I get a 75 gallon tank but then I have to spend that money, get rid of this one, and rearrange my house, since this one fits perfectly in the spot that it lives. (Which is why I went with it, but now I'm annoyed with it.)

Sorry. Just disappointed and venting.

[bigdreams]

I know the feeling.. Was disappointed when I decided not to do planted discus tank too. However I am glad I listened to the wisdom here... My planted tank got camallamus worms suddenly, which was taken care of quickly because I spotted it early. Then got a bunch of cardinal tetras and I made rookie mistakes during QT and more than half died... I realized I gotta work up to discus, definitely not ready even though I have done tons of research. Also you are renting, so am I! I can't imagine moving a discus tank... So I am saving the discus tank for when I retire, or get a house. Good luck, btw disappointment hurts less than losing hundreds of $$ of fish. Hang in there!