Do people do WC's out of habit or actual need?

[easttech]

I'm a little confused, I see all these posts about people doing 50%-100% wc's daily, some more than 100%. I have 11 3" discus in a discus only tank other than some corys, bushy's and loaches. I keep the tank at 86, and I feed 5 times a day, morning BH, freeze dried tubifex, frozen shrimp or BW, rotate every day, flakes and last feeding is BH.

It is not bare bottom. I vacuum and change 50% twice a week. I test for nitrates and before the WC I have 5-10 ppm's. Why would I need to do more? When people are doing the massive WC's is it because the nitrates are getting to high. What am I missing? If I did more WC's what would I gain a few ppm's in notrates?

I run a sump, with purigen, API nitrate absorb and have a sponge filter in my sump.

I must be missing something.

[ksuyen]

I would say it's both. I will let the others with more knowledge to explain. Discus is an expensive fish, it's a better prevention by doing frequent WC before anything happens. There are a lot of factors involved: fish age, aquarium size, equipment, dosing, breed, planted vs bare, etc. Generally people has more success keeping discus for longer time with frequent wc compare to those with less. In my opinion, keep your water clean, keep varied high quality food, etc. and not worrying every little things are essential. Just my 2c.

[easttech]

I would say it's both. I will let the others with more knowledge to explain. Discus is an expensive fish, it's a better prevention by doing frequent WC before anything happens. There are a lot of factors involved: fish age, aquarium size, equipment, dosing, breed, planted vs bare, etc. Generally people has more success keeping discus for longer time with frequent wc compare to those with less. In my opinion, keep your water clean, keep varied high quality food, etc. and not worrying every little things are essential. Just my 2c.

Thats where I get confused. Is water with only 10 ppm's of nitrates not clean?

[LizStreithorst]

Those of us with experience let the fish tell us. Those with not as much experience should follow the advice of folks who have been around the block a few times until they have learned enough to be able to read their fish. Those who don't generally end up with Discus that don't grow to their genetic potential, or worse, get sick and we see them in the disease section.

[easttech]

Those of us with experience let the fish tell us. Those with not as much experience should follow the advice of folks who have been around the block a few times until they have learned enough to be able to read their fish. Those who don't generally end up with Discus that don't grow to their genetic potential, or worse, get sick and we see them in the disease section.

And your fish tell you what? What is your routine? Are you suggesting I am not experienced?

[Akili]

Thats where I get confused. Is water with only 10 ppm's of nitrates not clean?

I pefer to have it less than 5 ppm to zero nitrates.25 years ago I used to do only weekly water change and every three months or so I was at my local fish store getting medication for one thing or other.

[rickztahone]

If you feed BH you will soon notice that BH is one of the absolute messiest foods you can feed. It leaves a nasty residue on the glass, and this slime builds up all through your whole system. The more and more you feed, and the less frequent you do water changes (weekly), the easier it is going to be for that tank to eventually crash. With that said, if you are a rigorous tester and you are consistently around 5ppm in nitrates, then I believe you can get away with the current regimen you have going on.

[warblad79]

And your fish tell you what? What is your routine? Are you suggesting I am not experienced?

Experienced discus keep should knows the purpose of large water change, so clearly if you don't do large water change per day at least 50% for young juvi only indication your not experienced discus keeper. Also you need to keep them on bare bottom until they reach 5".

[DJW]

@easttech,

The level of nitrate is a pretty good indicator of how clean the water is, because nitrate builds up at about the same rate as other unhealthy elements in the water, namely dissolved organic compounds and bacteria.

I noticed that you use API Nitra-Zorb. I have never used it, but if it is working the nitrate will be lowered by it, and will no longer be a good marker for water quality.

How are your discus doing? Do you have pictures?

[easttech]

Experienced discus keep should knows the purpose of large water change, so clearly if you don't do large water change per day at least 50% for young juvi only indication your not experienced discus keeper. Also you need to keep them on bare bottom until they reach 5".

You say this based on what? 50% WC based on what, give some facts please. Are you not basing this on water quality? What is it that makes u believe it has to be 50% per day? So your saying my water at 10 ppm is not clean? Do you even test your water or just blindly change 50% per day because someone told you you should. Clearly there are differences of opinions, and you are entitled to them. I am looking for fact.s

[warblad79]

You say this based on what? 50% WC based on what, give some facts please. Are you not basing this on water quality? What is it that makes u believe it has to be 50% per day? So your saying my water at 10 ppm is not clean? Do you even test your water or just blindly change 50% per day because someone told you you should. Clearly there are differences of opinions, and you are entitled to them. I am looking for fact.s

Base on my 7 years experienced breeding, raising fry to adulthood.

[Rapture]

If you look through this forum you will see what the fish usually look like after they are kept the way you are keeping them long term, at that small size. How long have you had them this way? Do you have any pics? They may be able to survive like that, but this forum often promotes the type of husbandry that will grow the fish out large and round. I do love learning about how people can grow them without all the water changes, but it is rare that they have pics of nice round fish to prove that what they are doing works. So please post pics as you go, if you can. Otherwise, it's just words with no proof of good results.

[easttech]

If you look through this forum you will see what the fish usually look like after they are kept the way you are keeping them long term, at that small size. How long have you had them this way? Do you have any pics? They may be able to survive like that, but this forum often promotes the type of husbandry that will grow the fish out large and round. I do love learning about how people can grow them without all the water changes, but it is rare that they have pics of nice round fish to prove that what they are doing works. So please post pics as you go, if you can. Otherwise, it's just words with no proof of good results.

The intent of my post was not to say what I am doing is right, people on this forum seem to be very defensive. All I asked was what drives the amount of water changes. I understand people say the result is growth but if growth is driven in a major part by WC's what is it about the water that provides those results? People say PH really does not matter for growth, need hardness when growing out fry. No one seems to mention nitrate ppm, or very few. What exactly is being achieved by the water change. I have stated what my water nitrates are, around 10ppm with 2 50% WC's a week. My fish are 3+inches and have grown about 1/2" in the last 2 weeks. They eat like pigs and are constantly swimming and looking for more. I will post pics but almost afraid as all the purists will find a reason to berate me.

I asked a question and all but a few of the responses have been insults, very few facts on actual water quality before and after all the WC changes.

[easttech]

@easttech,

The level of nitrate is a pretty good indicator of how clean the water is, because nitrate builds up at about the same rate as other unhealthy elements in the water, namely dissolved organic compounds and bacteria.

I noticed that you use API Nitra-Zorb. I have never used it, but if it is working the nitrate will be lowered by it, and will no longer be a good marker for water quality.

How are your discus doing? Do you have pictures?

They are doing well, when I am even within 30' of the tank they are swimming like crazy begging for food. Good point on the Nitra Zorb, if not nitrates what are the water parameters I should be concerned with? I will post some pics

[easttech]

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