Do people do WC's out of habit or actual need?

[nolefan]

n
Yes, you're missing the point. The issue was regards to adverse effect to discus not the plants. It's not possible to do large WC to a planted tank because all other stuff inside already occupy the space so only little water can be change.

How do you figure that ? I can do a 80% water change on my planted tank just as easy as my bare bottom tanks

[warblad79]

How do you figure that ? I can do a 80% water change on my planted tank just as easy as my bare bottom tanks

Let's say I have two 55 gallon tank. One planted tank with gravel, plants, and driftwood. The other tank is BB with just Sponge filter nothing else. So if I do 100% wc for both tank per volume. I'm only replacing probably 30 gallons or 60% on my planted since the rest are occupied by the other object. On the other hand since there are no object on the bb tank. The water filled the entire space of the tank which 55 gallon. So replacing all water and fill it with the same amount and that's equivalent to 100% WC. Unless if you actually calculating and measuring the volume you are replacing

[camthi609]

Aloha Easttech,

I'm surprised that w/all the replies you've gotten, aside from all the bad stuffs, why WC is a necessity even though you have perfect good aged water.
It's because there are trace minerals in our water (sodium, magnesium, calcium....etc.) which is why people who use RO water have to add such as Discus Trace because the system filters everything out of our water, good and bad. That's why you'd always notice how perky and happy they all are after their wc, it's like giving them a clean bath and a shot of booster. I hope this little piece of info helps. Best :-)

[John_Nicholson]

The biggest problem with planted tanks is you just cannot keep them clean enough. The gravel or sand ( sand is better ) tends to trap things that you don't see. You might think it is clean but it really is not. Don't take out word for it just because some of us have been doing this for 20+ years. Please feel free to learn it yourself. Setup 2 tanks plant one, leave the other bare bottom. Stock the same, feed the same, water change the same. Do that for 6 to 12 months. You will find that your bare bottom discus are bigger, healthy, and have better color in 99% of the cases. In the planted tank people will normally experience issues when growing out young fish. You can kind of get a way with it with adults if you are careful. As a general statement a 70% water change in a planted tank is about like a 35% water change in a bare bottom....It is about 1/2 as effective. It you want to raise young fish in a planted tank you can do it. You can either change 90% of the water a day and feed carefully or you can do waht all new discus people do and treat discus like guppys. If they live the will top out much smaller than they would have been in a better environment.

-john

[Rex82]

I am always interested I threads like this as I myself used to believe that the 100% a day was best and always stuck by the sponge filter, dump old water and refill daily method for years and it worked great.
But since having a break of a couple years, reading up and talking with others I've taken a different approach this time around and went with better filtration and design in my new fishroom. It will be interesting to see the difference if any. I figure if a top breeder in Germany can grow immaculate fish on water changes of 25-35% a day and is happy as long as his water is below 50ppm nitrate then why can't I?

[Filip]

I am always interested I threads like this as I myself used to believe that the 100% a day was best and always stuck by the sponge filter, dump old water and refill daily method for years and it worked great.
But since having a break of a couple years, reading up and talking with others I've taken a different approach this time around and went with better filtration and design in my new fishroom. It will be interesting to see the difference if any. I figure if a top breeder in Germany can grow immaculate fish on water changes of 25-35% a day and is happy as long as his water is below 50ppm nitrate then why can't I?

Who's the breeder that breed and raise discus with 50 ppm nitrates? Do you have a text or link to share his methods of keeping discus ?

[John_Nicholson]

Rex82 I always encourage people to experiment and then post the results. There is an entire section of this forum for that....but I just hate when people start posting about doing things differently before that have really done it....LOL....You would be surprised by how many people will say that changing water is not really needed. When you ask them you find out that they are basing this on having discus for about 3 minutes. The normal pattern is they tell us that we are full of chit. They rock along for a few weeks or even a few months saying how great everything is going and then suddenly they either start asking questions about a fish that "just suddenly got sick" or they disappear completely because their fish died. I just with they would post after their crash saying what their results really were. I have also read people go on and on about how great their fish are.....then they come to a NADA show and I hear man I did not realize that discus could look like these......

-john

[bluelagoon]

Who's the breeder that breed and raise discus with 50 ppm nitrates? Do you have a text or link to share his methods of keeping discus ?

These folks.

http://diskuszucht-stendker.de/plugi...sswerte_en.pdf

[Davidzil]

Nice post, as John said, you can always prove it to yourself, by trying it your way and the way others recommend it, or you can find a system that works for you, somewhere in the middle.
No one is forcing anyone to do 100% water changes, find what works for you.

[Willie]

It's important to remember that everyone of the old timers on this forum, and probably everyone of the newbies, started raising discus in a planted tank. Every single one of us!

All the old timers here (I'm talking to you, John) have switched to bare bottom tanks and 100% water changes multiple times a week. Is this because we have lost a sense of aesthetics? Is it because we enjoy water changes? Or is it because we're mesmerized by bare bottom tanks? No, it's because we've learned from painful, often expensive, personal experience.

Do this approach produce better fish? Well, John won the 2014 NADA Hobbyist Bred Award for a fish he raised from a spawn. (He couldn't compete in 2016 because he was the judge.)

Go ahead and raise your discus any way you want. If you believe that you're different from us, maybe you are. If your discus turn out great, show us. But if you're asking for advice...

Willie

[Braydon00]

Love these threads too Rex It's always helpful for new people like me. All great advice from experienced discus keepers. More frequent large water changes with minimal decor=bigger healthier fish, enough said.

[Rex82]

Who's the breeder that breed and raise discus with 50 ppm nitrates? Do you have a text or link to share his methods of keeping discus ?

Alex Piwowarski, mentioned it in conversation we have had. Can't link but I have posted the copy and pasted email between him and I in a different thread. Also stendkers have mentioned it previously also in their site

[Rex82]

In my experience there's always a percentage of fish in each batch that grow no matter where or how they're kept and these are the fish that a breeder will keep for themselves, they thrive best in the water change schedule given. Also do people notice that breeders will keep say 20 or more pairs of each strain but they don't have the amount of fry reflecting these amounts of pairs? The answer is culling, they breed from fish that thrive in their breeding room, probably with each generation the amount of 'fish that thrive' in those conditions is a higher amount.
Patience and goals are what wins a race inevitably IMO, or the quicker way? Water change the chit out of them ;-)

That's my experience crossed with learnings from talking to breeders like Alex.

[DJW]

Alex Piwowarski, mentioned it in conversation we have had. Can't link but I have posted the copy and pasted email between him and I in a different thread. Also stendkers have mentioned it previously also in their site

He pumps a lot of tank water through an RO filter. See this thread, post #16 is a summary.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...lex-Piwo/page2

[Rex82]

Not any more, most of that filtration isn't used any more