AquaticSuppliers.com     Cafepress Store

Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 73

Thread: Test #3 Growing out discus fry with limited water changes and plants/algae scrubber

  1. #16
    Registered Member Luke in Phoenix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    216
    iTrader
    0
    Real Name
    Luke

    Default Re: Test #3 Growing out discus fry with limited water changes and plants/algae scru

    You could be right. Each aquarium I’ve seen with an algae scrubber or other filtration has a “limit”. When mine is working 100% (optimal light and plant nutrients), I can feed up to 7-9 cubes of food per day and keep nitrates between 0-10. I went with the UV instead of the ozoniser but I’ll have to look into them again.


    There are lots of algae scrubber designs out there with a quick google search but this one has worked well for me.
    All of the lights I use are designed for growing plants or planted aquariums.

    There is a 50 watt LED on the side of the sump that shines on an “upflow” algae scrubber. There is also a 90 watt led that shines down on the sump from above. I noticed this week that some of the 90 watt led lights were burned out and that might have been why the nitrates were rising. Usually I can feed even more and they stay lower. I turned on an additional 90 watts of led above the sump. We’ll know if it worked in a few more days if the nitrates go back down.

    2016-09-14 09.38.12.jpg

    Post 12 here has some more pics of the sump:
    http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...changes-needed


    The display tank has two 54 watt led light fixtures above it.
    2016-09-14 09.35.44.jpg2016-09-14 09.37.03.jpg


    The top breeder tank has two 23 watt led light fixtures above it.
    2016-09-14 09.36.46.jpg

  2. #17
    Registered Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Magrathea
    Posts
    70
    iTrader
    0
    Real Name
    Tres

    Default Re: Test #3 Growing out discus fry with limited water changes and plants/algae scru

    Thanks, and so if you're pumping 300 watts of LED light into that plant/algae growth then perhaps that may well be able to keep up with as large a bioload as that!

    But it's not just about nitrates in my understanding, (although this may be a helful indicator to track). It's hard to find specific decent research regarding it, but my understanding which I've arrived at after reviewing many different sources is that there are complex/long-chain organic molecules (organic carbon, of varying forms), that are a byproduct of your bioload's metabolism that can be difficult to break down and used by either plants or bacteria. But ozone will oxidize those compounds down to their basic forms which plants then are able to utilize as their fertilizer. Aquarists don't tend to rely on the use of ozone for the right reasons however, and they seem to believe that it is used primarily just for killing pathogens despite that this might not be its primary benefit in an otherwise generally healthy system.

    Are you under the impression that the plants uptake TDS and keep that from climbing by the way, considering that you are regularly harvesting them to cycle nutrients back out? (It's something I've wondered about). Or have you considered other means of dealing with this such as regularly putting quite small filter-bags of DI resin into your filter to gently keep TDS down within whatever range you believe is appropriate?

  3. #18
    Registered Member Luke in Phoenix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    216
    iTrader
    0
    Real Name
    Luke

    Default Re: Test #3 Growing out discus fry with limited water changes and plants/algae scru

    I think you're right that the ozone can be risky. I will still probably try it eventually.

    Yes on the plants / algae consuming TDS. I replace evaporated water with RO water and skim 1-2 cups of water out of the sump every 1-2 days. If I don't add minerals or KH, the TDS will continue to decline. I don't add any additional DI or anything like that.

  4. #19
    Registered Member Luke in Phoenix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    216
    iTrader
    0
    Real Name
    Luke

    Default Re: Test #3 Growing out discus fry with limited water changes and plants/algae scru

    Pros and cons update. But mostly cons today.

    TDS: 370
    PH: 6.9
    Redox: 360
    Phosphate was 0, increased to 2
    Nitrate: 30


    In my experience, Algae scrubbers do not always perform the same over time. In my opinion, it is because certain minerals and nutrients are used up by the algae more quickly than others. When a certain element, let’s say Iodine (including iodide and iodate) is depleted, it becomes a limiting factor, limiting the performance and filtration efficiency of the algae scrubber.

    Over the past few years I’ve acquired various minerals and fertilizers to try and combat this problem:
    2016-09-25 15.25.10-11111.jpg


    With the extremely low % of water changes, it has been challenging to know what the limiting element is and dose accordingly so that the algae scrubber maintains performance.

    Right now the nitrates are all the way up to 30. It wasn’t the lighting. I suspect a lack of iodine currently... I just started dosing and monitoring. We’ll see if that helps bring it back down to 0.


    For me, this search and find is a little frustrating at times. I’m thinking that the optimal setup would be to do just enough water changes that the algae scrubber does not have to be supplemented but the work of water changes is still reduced. The current water change schedule is obviously to low (shocker right? I purposefully started at the low end though) Additional trials are needed to find the best water change regime and it will vary tank by tank per feeding.


    Update on the older purple fish: He is about 90% healed. I’ll post pics in subsequent post.

    Fry are getting big. I will measure and post later on.


    Below is a pic of the algae I removed today. This is about how much I remove every couple of days. It mostly floats to the top of the sump and I just scoop it out.

    2016-09-25 15.34.49.jpg

  5. #20
    Registered Member Luke in Phoenix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    216
    iTrader
    0
    Real Name
    Luke

    Default Re: Test #3 Growing out discus fry with limited water changes and plants/algae scru

    2 month fry birthday tomorrow!

    Only Water Changes since August 2015:
    - 50% August – November 2015
    - 5% - December 2015
    - 5% - January 2016
    - 32% - February 2016
    - 50% - March 2016
    - 2% - May 2016
    - 1% - June 2016
    - 3% - July 2016
    - 4% - August 2016
    - 60% & 40% - September 2016

    Current stats:
    TDS: 320
    Redox: 350
    PH: 6.9
    Nitrate: 30
    Iodine (all forms): <.05
    Phosphate: 2 (Increased from 0 by adding monopotassium phosphate)


    4 fish pulled for measuring birthday party:
    Fry 11.jpgFry 22.jpgFry 33.jpgFry 44.jpg

  6. #21
    Registered Member Luke in Phoenix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    216
    iTrader
    0
    Real Name
    Luke

    Default Re: Test #3 Growing out discus fry with limited water changes and plants/algae scru

    Fry are now 3 months old. Pics below on tape measure.

    Only Water Changes since August 2015:
    - 50% August – November 2015
    - 5% - December 2015
    - 5% - January 2016
    - 32% - February 2016
    - 50% - March 2016
    - 2% - May 2016
    - 1% - June 2016
    - 3% - July 2016
    - 4% - August 2016
    - 60% & 40% - September 2016
    - 20% - October 2016

    Current stats:
    TDS: 280
    Redox: 385
    PH: 6.7
    Nitrate: 10


    I wish I could have fed them more often this past month but I' was traveling a lot and the fry were only feed 1-2 / day.

    20161112_195812-1jpeg.jpg20161112_200248-.jpg20161112_200043-.jpg

  7. #22
    Registered Member Neptune's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    952
    iTrader
    0

    Default Re: Test #3 Growing out discus fry with limited water changes and plants/algae scru

    I'm a beginner but, is that peppering normal or part of the high TDS?

  8. #23
    Registered Member Luke in Phoenix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    216
    iTrader
    0
    Real Name
    Luke

    Default Re: Test #3 Growing out discus fry with limited water changes and plants/algae scru

    I believe the peppering is genetic. I've never heard of TDS effecting it but others may have.

  9. #24
    Registered Member Luke in Phoenix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    216
    iTrader
    0
    Real Name
    Luke

    Default Re: Test #3 Growing out discus fry with limited water changes and plants/algae scru

    4 months old pics from yesterday below.

    Only Water Changes since August 2015:
    - 50% August – November 2015
    - 5% - December 2015
    - 5% - January 2016
    - 32% - February 2016
    - 50% - March 2016
    - 2% - May 2016
    - 1% - June 2016
    - 3% - July 2016
    - 4% - August 2016
    - 60% & 40% - September 2016
    - 20% - October 2016
    - 30% - November 2016



    Temp: 82 (i'm increasing to 83 today)
    Nitrates: 25
    TDS: 330
    Redox: 410
    PH: 6


    20161208_204011-11.jpg20161208_204144-11.jpg

  10. #25
    Moderator Team Filip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Macedonia-Europe
    Posts
    3,600
    iTrader
    0
    Real Name
    Filip

    Default Re: Test #3 Growing out discus fry with limited water changes and plants/algae scru

    I am way too late with my response on this thread but anyway , nice progress Luke .The fry is 3.5 inch in 4 months with 20-30% WC monthly on average .
    What was the number of the fry you are raising , the total number of discus in the whole system and the system tankage in Gallons ?
    What do you feed them with ?
    What filters do you use for mechanical and bio filtration ?
    In what way do you consider UV unit helps maintaining your Redox in check ?

    Nice experiment Luke .TFS with us .

  11. #26
    Platinum Member and Homesteader nc0gnet0's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Posts
    8,089
    iTrader
    10 (100%)
    Real Name
    Rick

    Default Re: Test #3 Growing out discus fry with limited water changes and plants/algae scru

    The fish are a little small for their age, not too bad though.
    Shape is not good at all, the head region is behind in growth, not getting the proper nutrients.
    Fins are ragged and show signs of degradation
    Ex-President-North American Discus Association-NADA

  12. #27
    Registered Member Luke in Phoenix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    216
    iTrader
    0
    Real Name
    Luke

    Default Re: Test #3 Growing out discus fry with limited water changes and plants/algae scru

    Hi Filip,
    I gave away all but 3 fry now, they are in a 40 gallon tank with a couple of other 4.5” discus. There is also an 80 gallon display tank with around 9 adult discus. Both tanks are connected to a 20 gallon refugium with an upflow algae scrubber in it. Other filtration includes a large eheim canister filter, 2 sock filters and UV Sterilizers on the 40 and 80 gallon tanks.
    I’m not an expert on UV but I think this is an interesting article: http://www.americanaquariumproducts....aquarium_redox

    I will post my beefheart recipe below.

  13. #28
    Registered Member Luke in Phoenix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    216
    iTrader
    0
    Real Name
    Luke

    Default Re: Test #3 Growing out discus fry with limited water changes and plants/algae scru

    Quote Originally Posted by nc0gnet0 View Post
    The fish are a little small for their age, not too bad though.
    Shape is not good at all, the head region is behind in growth, not getting the proper nutrients.
    Fins are ragged and show signs of degradation

    Hi Rick, fry fins continue to show signs of degradation.

    This is my beefheart recipe. It’s usually a little different each time but I always love hearing ways to improve nutrients. For water nutrients, sometimes I add Discus trace, calcium and minerals.

    Recipe:
    Beef heart - 3 pounds
    Fish (saltwater, usually salmon or tuna) - 1 pound
    Shrimp - 1 pound, peeled
    Egg yolk - 3 egg yolks

    Astaxanthin - 1 tablespoon
    Lecithin - 2 tablespoons
    Garlic - 2 cloves
    Paprika - 1 tablespoon
    Spirulina - 2 tablespoon
    Vita Chem vitamins - 5 tablespoons
    Fish oil / krill oil – 10-20 emptied pills
    Brewer’s yeast - 1 tablespoon
    Gluten powder - 2 tablespoons
    Liquid calcium - 3 tablespoons
    Discus trace - 12 tablespoons
    Gelatin - 1 packet, with discus trace elements mixed in for liquid
    Banana - 1

  14. #29
    Platinum Member and Homesteader nc0gnet0's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Posts
    8,089
    iTrader
    10 (100%)
    Real Name
    Rick

    Default Re: Test #3 Growing out discus fry with limited water changes and plants/algae scru

    Ex-President-North American Discus Association-NADA

  15. #30
    Platinum Member and Homesteader nc0gnet0's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Posts
    8,089
    iTrader
    10 (100%)
    Real Name
    Rick

    Default Re: Test #3 Growing out discus fry with limited water changes and plants/algae scru

    Quote Originally Posted by Luke in Phoenix View Post
    Hi Rick, fry fins continue to show signs of degradation.

    This is my beefheart recipe. It’s usually a little different each time but I always love hearing ways to improve nutrients. For water nutrients, sometimes I add Discus trace, calcium and minerals.

    Recipe:
    Beef heart - 3 pounds
    Fish (saltwater, usually salmon or tuna) - 1 pound
    Shrimp - 1 pound, peeled
    Egg yolk - 3 egg yolks

    Astaxanthin - 1 tablespoon
    Lecithin - 2 tablespoons
    Garlic - 2 cloves
    Paprika - 1 tablespoon
    Spirulina - 2 tablespoon
    Vita Chem vitamins - 5 tablespoons
    Fish oil / krill oil – 10-20 emptied pills
    Brewer’s yeast - 1 tablespoon
    Gluten powder - 2 tablespoons
    Liquid calcium - 3 tablespoons
    Discus trace - 12 tablespoons
    Gelatin - 1 packet, with discus trace elements mixed in for liquid
    Banana - 1
    I'm the wrong one to ask on BH recipes, I don't feed the crap

    Before I add some more constructive criticism, let me say I like what your trying and your willingness to post results. I do however take issue with the fact you sold some of these fry, IMO, they should have been culled.

    Hopefully you will try another batch, and if I may, I would like to suggest some changes to your routine.

    1) I would like to see the scrubber only be used on the grow-out tank, not coupled with the display tank.
    2) I think most of your problems "might" clear up if you didn't take things to such an extreme, perhaps once weekly WC of 80%. Also, add some crushed coral to the tank.
    3) Consider a cleaner food, like Al's FDBW's.
    4) Some better parental stock would be nice as well.

    Here are a couple of photo's of some juvies of mine, within a week age of yours. These were raised with traditional methods. Nothing special, just some basic browns. The purpose is to compare the regions on my fish to yours that I highlighted.

    use1.jpg
    use2.jpg

    just crappy cell phone pics, but you get the idea.
    Last edited by nc0gnet0; 01-05-2017 at 12:38 AM.
    Ex-President-North American Discus Association-NADA

Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

pic of month             AquaticSuppliers.com