How big are they considered adults?

[undrwtr]

Hello everyone. I've been interested in keeping Discus and am almost ready to finally take the plunge and give it a shot. I've been taking a break from the hobby for a few years because I moved and got really busy with work and raising my young kids. I finally have a little more free time and can't wait to keep fish again. I've kept everything from CA/SA cichlids, wolf fish, aros and various other oddball predators.

Well on to my main question. While doing research I've read that young discus need to be fed up to 5x daily with water changes of at least 50% daily. As adults they only need to be fed twice daily with large water changes can be once or twice a week. So what size do you start cutting back on feeding? I haven't kept fish in my new location so I still need to test the pH and hardness of the tap water here. I plan on getting a group of 5-6 for a 75 gallon with no other types of fish, bare bottom with maybe a few pieces of driftwood to please the eye a bit. If I get a group of 4-4.5 inchers is that considered almost adult thus feeding 5x a day not necessary? Having kept large hungry preds in the past I'm accustomed to large scale water changes. I have a pretty good idea of when a change is necessary but I'd prefer to get a group and only have to change the water 2-3 times a week. Given my preference what size discus do you suggest I start with?

[ExReefer]

Ask yourself what are you trying to accomplish by purchasing sub-adults? 4-4.5" are sub-adults. They are still fairly expensive, but you can save some money up front vs. purchasing adults. In the long run, you will have spent more money for the sub-adults and some of them may never reach the adult size you had in mind. Sub-adults still need a lot more feedings and WC's than adults.

Summary:
If your goal is to experience heavy feedings and lot of WC's for while, then sub-adults or juvies are the way to go.
If your goal is to keep discus with minimal work, just go with adults. The work has been done for you.

[undrwtr]

Thanks you pretty much answered what I need to know. My other question is when exactly are they considered adults and do not require as many feedings leading to more water changes? Is it a size thing or age or both? I'm still trying to decide if I'd like to start with a youunger group as opposed to adults. I've always enjoyed seeing my fish grow from young to full adult. I just figured with sub-adults i could have the experience of watching the group grow a bit with it taking a little less time for them to reach the stability as adults.

[PAR23]

Thanks you pretty much answered what I need to know. My other question is when exactly are they considered adults and do not require as many feedings leading to more water changes? Is it a size thing or age or both? I'm still trying to decide if I'd like to start with a youunger group as opposed to adults. I've always enjoyed seeing my fish grow from young to full adult. I just figured with sub-adults i could have the experience of watching the group grow a bit with it taking a little less time for them to reach the stability as adults.

It is mainly based on age of the fish. Usually 12 months or older are considered adults. As mentioned above, adults may cost more up front but save you money in the long run. I have both juves/sub adults and adults and there is a lot more work involved with the former. I have the juvies/sub adults to gain the experience and would do it all over again.

[undrwtr]

It is mainly based on age of the fish. Usually 12 months or older are considered adults. As mentioned above, adults may cost more up front but save you money in the long run. I have both juves/sub adults and adults and there is a lot more work involved with the former. I have the juvies/sub adults to gain the experience and would do it all over again.

That's encouraging. I'm still researching and deciding but I'm leaning more towards a younger group. I feel like buying adult fish is almost like cheating because you didn't put in the hard work. Only time I've ever liked buying a full grown fish was to add to my tank of already grown fish wich I have raised.

[PAR23]

That's encouraging. I'm still researching and deciding but I'm leaning more towards a younger group. I feel like buying adult fish is almost like cheating because you didn't put in the hard work. Only time I've ever liked buying a full grown fish was to add to my tank of already grown fish wich I have raised.

I think 4-4.5" fish are ideal to start out with. I started with 3-3.5" and some have grown out very nicely while others....well.....I'm still waiting.

Now I feed 5-6x a day with daily 60% WC in a BB tank so I think I am obeying the "rules" and like I said some still have not quite met my expectations. Having this knowledge now I would have done it all over again, uh wait, I am doing right now as I got some juvies a few weeks ago. Good luck with whatever you decide.

[discuspaul]

Sounds like you're leaning heavily towards sub-adults. Go for it.
A 4.5" sub-adult under a year old is a nice-sized fish and is quite near adult stage. But still with room to grow.
In your 75 gal BB tank, a group of 5 or 6 of those will do nicely with twice a day feedings, and you can get by with say, 2-3 wc's of 50% or more per week, IMO

[Eddie]

I always say that size isn't a good gauge for age. At 4.5 inches, some breeders have lots more growing to do. As far as feeding, not everyone feeds 5X a day, some do 3 very nice portion feedings and get the same results. Consistency in the time of feeding is said to be quite important or maintaining a strict schedule.

[Jhhnn]

75's are a good size for discus, and BB is the way to go, imho. I'm with Eddie wrt to feeding- I feed 3x daily, large portions, as many as 5x on weekends, and I change a lot of water, just as he does. I've had good results growing out 4" sub adults, who require surprisingly large amounts of food to reach 6-7" size. Starting with 4" fish, there's a year to 18 mos where growth is noticeable. After that, they grow only slowly, almost imperceptibly, particularly if they're not very big at that age.

I strongly encourage new keepers to invest in a water changing system, a way to make the process as quick and easy as they reasonably can. Lots of different ways to do that, depending on circumstances, but it's a key ingredient to success, imho. If that means putting the aquarium in a particular place, or buying a $100 pump, or aging water or any number of things, it's smart to figure it out and to do so in advance. Domestic discus thrive in fresh, clean water across a broad range of parameters, but even very advanced aquarists who have perfected the keeping of live plants and even use ozone still change a lot of water. Our test kits give us only a very narrow window into the living organic soup that's in our tanks, and the simplest way to keep it healthy is changing a lot of it often.

It's impossible to over emphasize purchasing quality stock, and our sponsors excel at providing that. My experience with Kenny Cheung, for example, has been extremely positive, and I recommend him wholeheartedly. I'm not alone in that, either. It's also important to select quality hardware. Opinions vary, but I've done well with Eheim Jager heaters, Cascade canister filters, and ATI stick on liquid crystal thermometers, all from Kensfish, another of our sponsors. David Rose (Igo pro) another sponsor, has developed a reputation as a solid provider of hardware and other stuff, too.

I use Prime water conditioner from Ken, can't go wrong with that, and am considering switching to Seachem's dry product, Safe, when this jug runs out. Seachem's ammonia test kit is the only one to use, imo, because it's the only one that can tell the difference between dangerous free ammonia and harmless ammonium.

http://www.seachem.com/Products/prod...T_Ammonia.html

It's smart to obtain all the stock for a particularly tank at the same time from the same source. Quarantine is moot, unnecessary. Tastes vary, but I like the look of a tank where all the discus are of the same variety, and think there are other advantages to it. A group of siblings already have a lot of dominance issues worked out, they'll likely grow at the same rate, and it's easier to tell if any one is doing poorly. Down the road, when they want to breed, undesirable pairings are avoided, too...

Discus keeping isn't for everybody. It's expensive, and requires a high level of dedication and time investment. If that's not how a particular hobbyist can approach it, they're better of to take a different direction, imho....

[undrwtr]

I strongly encourage new keepers to invest in a water changing system, a way to make the process as quick and easy as they reasonably can. Lots of different ways to do that, depending on circumstances, but it's a key ingredient to success, imho. If that means putting the aquarium in a particular place, or buying a $100 pump, or aging water or any number of things, it's smart to figure it out and to do so in advance. Domestic discus thrive in fresh, clean water across a broad range of parameters, but even very advanced aquarists who have perfected the keeping of live plants and even use ozone still change a lot of water. Our test kits give us only a very narrow window into the living organic soup that's in our tanks, and the simplest way to keep it healthy is changing a lot of it often

I agree. I pretty much still have the equipment needed for frequent water changes with aged water from my previous fish keeping adventures. Python, 50 gallon trash bins, airstones, extra heaters, spare magdrive. I need to buy some prime though.

It's impossible to over emphasize purchasing quality stock, and our sponsors excel at providing that. My experience with Kenny Cheung, for example, has been extremely positive, and I recommend him wholeheartedly. .....

I'm really interested in getting discus from Kenny. It's nice that he's in Daly City because thats about 45-1hr from where I'm at and I'm in that area frequently. I look forward to seeing his stock live and in person one day.

It's smart to obtain all the stock for a particularly tank at the same time from the same source. Quarantine is moot, unnecessary. Tastes vary, but I like the look of a tank where all the discus are of the same variety, and think there are other advantages to it. A group of siblings already have a lot of dominance issues worked out, they'll likely grow at the same rate, and it's easier to tell if any one is doing poorly. Down the road, when they want to breed, undesirable pairings are avoided, too...

Discus keeping isn't for everybody. It's expensive, and requires a high level of dedication and time investment. If that's not how a particular hobbyist can approach it, they're better of to take a different direction, imho....

I like the idea of buying the whole group all at once. I'm now actually thinking of just putting the sub adult group into my 6'x2'x17" tank (I believe thats about 127 gallons) which is plumbed to a huge wet/dry. I know it would be more ideal if it was taller but with it being 2' wide I think it would be plenty of roon. I was going to use that set up for something other than discus but I'm getting tempted to make that a discus tank. . I think I've pretty much made up my mind to start with sub adults and enjoy the challenge of allowing them to grow and flourish. Now I just have to decide if I want to do it in the bigger tank or in the 75.

[Keith Perkins]

This thread is find of refreshing, someone with a whole lot of knowledge and asking some good pointed questions BEFORE buying fish. There's a ton of good information posted here already by Eddie and Jhhnn in particular, there may have been others after reading Jhhnn's long post I forget. I'm betting you're going to do well whichever direction you go. I tend underpopulate my tanks with large juvies which allows me to do more infrequent larger WCs. Right now I have 4 8 month olds that are probably a little over 4 inches in a 55 and I'm doing 80% WCs about every other day. Water quality is certainly one of the biggest keys to successfully growing out discus (along with quality stock, quality food, etc.), and you have to find a good method you can stick to.

It's always good to remember when you do a 95% WC you change 95% of the water, but when you do 2 50% WCs you only change 75% of it.

[Jhhnn]

Larger tanks and superior filtration for the same number of fish will definitely reduce the need for water changing. Even then, it's smart to start strong, back off if the situation warrants it. Water quality can't be too good, after all... Staying well into the safe zone of water quality has served me well.

One of my discus tanks is an ancient 75gal Oceanic reef system w/ wet/dry filter, which works extremely well for discus. I went to a lesser pump, and arranged the discharge so as to dissipate turbulence as the water enters the tank. The tank also has a couple of air driven sponge filters for redundancy.

I think of sub-adult discus as being a lot like human teenagers- they have enormous appetites, and will grow like weeds when provided a rich and varied diet. It's actually when their nutritional requirements are greatest.

I'd very much like to meet Kenny in person, and to see some of the discus varieties in person that I've only ever seen in pics. If I lived an hour away, I wouldn't pass up the opportunity. Probably the best time to be there would be when he's holding a new shipment in quarantine. I can't speak for Kenny, of course.

[snowflake311]

All I want to add is that it is very rewarding to watch your fish grow. I'm new to discus but I have grown out other cichlids. My green Severum was 1.5" when I got him now he is pushing 8" I love that fish. They make you proud.

[bigfish77]

In my humble opinion, you stated in your first post that you intend to house your stock in a 75 gallon and perform WCs 2-3 times a week in a bare bottom tank, that being said you might just buy 1-2.5 inchers and grow them out. I recently switched bad to discus after doing the whole Malawi/Peacock set-up and enjoy the peaceful nature of my discus. 3 Large WCs a week is much more then some individuals do monthly on there tanks and they still have success. Sub-adults and adults are very pricey though they are what you see is what you get, meaning you know what they will be when you purchase them, unlike fry who may or may not develop a specific pattern etc.

As stated previously, its good to see someone asking question before not after the fact. I think once you purchase discus, you'll end up clean your BB tank more then expected anyways since it will be easier. I do 3 large WCs a week and remove excess food/waste everyday or every other, usually takes about 15 mins start to finish. Good luck which ever way you decide!! Any specific strain your interested in? Purchasing sub-adults/adults gives you a chance to pick out some stunters definitely.

[Jhhnn]

Being able to obtain discus directly from Kenny is a big advantage, because you'll save on shipping. His current shipment includes a dozen varieties at less than $50 each, and it's smart to stay with the lower priced varieties when starting out. Half a dozen of any of them would make a stunning display.

It really just depends on your tastes, budget, and confidence level. As Eddie offered, You're asking the right questions, and clearly have strong fish keeping experience, so it's easier to offer encouragement. Discus aren't for everybody, for a lot of reasons, particularly because they really do need exceptional water quality to thrive and lots of food to grow out properly. It's almost a contradiction in terms, but it is what it is, imo.