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Thread: DIY automatic water changing system

  1. #1
    Registered Member LoGeek's Avatar
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    Default DIY automatic water changing system

    Discussing water changing methods in another thread has made me consider installing an automatic water changing system. However, I really want to minimize the risk of large water leakage. Insurance companies here in Sweden will not cover the costs if a water leak destroys my house and is caused by my crazy plumbing hobby!

    Therefore I'd like to run the set up by you all before I order any parts. Maybe I should draw the system to make it easier to understand? Anyway, I'll try to describe the plannned set up. Everything will be connected under my kitchen sink where there's obviously water and drain available. I can mention that I've read some existing threads but have found none that fit my tank positioning or desired safety level.

    Both hot and cold water copper pipes will have the following set up:
    - Tap into existing pipe with copper tee (compression fittings)
    - Brass mini ball valve. Compression fitting x thread.
    - Brass pressure reduction valve, PRV. Threaded.
    - Flexible pex/steel connection. Threaded.
    - Thermostatic mixing valve. Threaded.

    Hot and cold water will mix to desired temperature in the thermostatic valve, and then:
    - Brass solenoid valve 1. Connected to timer. Threaded.
    - Brass solenoid valve 2. Connected to timer. Threaded.
    - Brass push fit stud. Thread x push fit RO hose connection (10mm).
    - 5 meter hose to aquarium.

    The PRVs are installed to lower the risk of connections down the line blowing apart from high pressure. The PRVs will maintain a set pressure adjustable between 0.5-4 bar. I could get away with one PRV if I put it after the mixing valve, but I trust the PRVs more when it comes to leaking.

    The reason for the use of two solenoid valves is just redundency. In case one timer goes nuts or gets fingered on by my kids. As an extra safety measure I will have both timers plugged inte an extension socket controlled by a float switch in the aquarium.

    I will also drill an overflow, where I want the water level to be, which will go to drain through glued pvc pipes.

    Draining before water change will be performed with a power head on the bottom of the tank. It will pump through pvc pipe to the outside of the tank and connect to a tee in the overflow pipe. Adjustments to the water circulation in the tank and the positioning of the drain power head will hopefully make it possible to make bottom sludge be caught by drain water.

    As a last remark I can mention that I don't need to age my water (no pH drop/rise). To get rid of chloramine I will auto dose dry Seachem Safe into the tank during water change.

    Is it possible to understand the set up? I'd love to get your comments on how to make the system work well and SAFE!

  2. #2
    Registered Member Hart24601's Avatar
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    Default Re: DIY automatic water changing system

    I think that looks pretty solid, the float valve is a good idea and clever to use the mixing valve, awesome your tap water is good!

    So what is the procedure to change the water? What do you do?

    I have a bulkhead in the back, 1" with an elbow pointing down and a straight section that almost touches the bottom. There is a valve outside the bulkhead, I just turn that and get full siphon and the tank drains really fast down to about 1". There wasn't need to glue it either, so I can take it out when I want just a slip fit bulkhead.

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    Default Re: DIY automatic water changing system

    Sounds interesting.Why the timers if you are doing a conventional 24 hour continuous drip system? Years ago,{actually decades} I had a drip system set up with compression fitting tap into cold water line and frequently found moisture at that connection.If I ever revisit a drip system I would install a hosebib on the copper supply line vs a compression fitting for that reason.Also,based on my setup,I would suggest redundancy on the overflow design by including 2 separate exits from the tank to prevent possible overflows due to decayed plant material/dead fish blocking one.Good luck with your new system!

  4. #4
    Registered Member LoGeek's Avatar
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    Default Re: DIY automatic water changing system

    Quote Originally Posted by Hart24601 View Post
    I think that looks pretty solid, the float valve is a good idea and clever to use the mixing valve, awesome your tap water is good!

    So what is the procedure to change the water? What do you do?

    I have a bulkhead in the back, 1" with an elbow pointing down and a straight section that almost touches the bottom. There is a valve outside the bulkhead, I just turn that and get full siphon and the tank drains really fast down to about 1". There wasn't need to glue it either, so I can take it out when I want just a slip fit bulkhead.
    Your draining method is interesting. Just seems like trapped air can stop the siphoning from starting if you are unlucky? I'd also like to keep my drain open at all times without a valve, as an extra precaution against faulty filling.

    Yes, a float valve is probably a good idea. There are also mechanical float valves with a RO hose push fit ball valve. The float valve will shut the ball valve through buoyancy. Are they considered as good as electric ones? I'll still keep my two solenoids of course.

    The procedure:
    - Timer 1 starts power head which drains water
    - Timer 1 stops power head
    - Auto doser with built in timer adds Seachem Safe to tank
    - Timer 2 and 3 opens solenoids and tank is filled
    - Timer 2 and 3 shuts solenoids.

  5. #5
    Registered Member LoGeek's Avatar
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    Default Re: DIY automatic water changing system

    Quote Originally Posted by atlantadiscus View Post
    Sounds interesting.Why the timers if you are doing a conventional 24 hour continuous drip system? Years ago,{actually decades} I had a drip system set up with compression fitting tap into cold water line and frequently found moisture at that connection.If I ever revisit a drip system I would install a hosebib on the copper supply line vs a compression fitting for that reason.Also,based on my setup,I would suggest redundancy on the overflow design by including 2 separate exits from the tank to prevent possible overflows due to decayed plant material/dead fish blocking one.Good luck with your new system!
    This will not be a drip system, but rather an automated drain/fill system. The solenoid valves will stop the water when shut.

    Thanks for pointing out that I should have two drilled overflows. Excellent point!

  6. #6
    Registered Member Hart24601's Avatar
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    Default Re: DIY automatic water changing system

    I use float valves for my ro/di system and have found them to be good. I trust them more than electric in some situations What if you lose power, generally we still have water with no power. Just something to think about.

    My drain purges any air very quickly if the water is at least half up on the bulkhead. If you don't want a valve on it you could just use a 90 degree elbow and turn it upwards to use as a drain. Flip it down and put the straight piece in and instant siphon drain. Nice to use slip bulkheads for that and not use glue.

  7. #7
    Registered Member Hart24601's Avatar
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    Default Re: DIY automatic water changing system

    I control my system with double float valves to a pump to fill the tank. Just fyi. So I turn the valve, let it drain in about a min, close the valve and the float switch in the tank turns on the pump and auto fill it. As in the above post I could also just use a 90 elbow and flip it to drain.

    Maybe a photo helps. On the left is the drain, I have it moved so it's above the water line, it could be kept open as a drain there too. I swing it down and full siphon drains to about 1". On the right are floats, when water drops the pump turns on to refill. The 2nd float is just a backup.

    IMG_8318.jpg
    Last edited by Hart24601; 10-12-2016 at 07:11 PM.

  8. #8
    Registered Member LoGeek's Avatar
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    Default Re: DIY automatic water changing system

    Quote Originally Posted by Hart24601 View Post
    I use float valves for my ro/di system and have found them to be good. I trust them more than electric in some situations What if you lose power, generally we still have water with no power. Just something to think about.
    My solenoid valves can only open with power and the overflow will always be open. The mechanical ones looks interesting though!

    Thanks for information on your system. Is it really automated? If I understand correctly your drain is manually operated? Will not your filling start as soon as the water level drops, before the drain procedure is completed?

  9. #9
    Registered Member Hart24601's Avatar
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    Default Re: DIY automatic water changing system

    My system is just FYI, I don't have it set up to be totally automated, but it would be with a timer switch and a value instead of the manual valve it would be, I just don't need that quite yet and doubt I will add it. It's pretty easy to turn the handle and wait 1 or 2 min, shut the valve and off I go. Something like this on a timer:
    https://www.freshwatersystems.com/p-...-fpt-240v.aspx

    The refill does start before the drain is finished, but the 1" siphon removes water FAST! Even with a 1500gph (rated) pump the siphon breaks quickly when the water gets to the bottom. The refill has a nice effect running at the same time, because they are on opposite sides, of pushing the detritus to the siphon. Overall though not much new water is removed with how fast the tank drains.
    Last edited by Hart24601; 10-13-2016 at 10:32 AM.

  10. #10
    Registered Member LoGeek's Avatar
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    Default Re: DIY automatic water changing system

    Ok I see. Sounds like your siphon drain works great!

  11. #11
    Registered Member Hart24601's Avatar
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    Default Re: DIY automatic water changing system

    Thanks, I did edit the post to include a 1" solenoid valve I could add on a timer, but this works pretty slick and was easy to setup for now. Makes it easy to do a 95 or 100% W/C once you figure in the new water pushing out the old. Equally easy to do 50% or whatever percent you want however many times a day you want.

    Can't wait to see your system!

  12. #12
    Registered Member LoGeek's Avatar
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    Default Re: DIY automatic water changing system

    I'm not on my own computer with proper software but I managed to put this schematic together in google docs...

    Schematic auto wc.jpg

    I'll order the parts once I'm satisfied with the set up. Valves are really expensive here in Sweden so I'll have to order them from US/Asia which usually means 3-4 weeks shipping time.

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    Registered Member nc0gnet0's Avatar
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    Default Re: DIY automatic water changing system

    I don't like the thought of timers on anything other than the drain valve. Floats should control the solenoid valves on the fill side of the equation. If you have an overflow drilled into the tank, then you should be safe from the tank ever overflowing. Putting a strainer on this should keep a dead fish from blocking the overflow. you should then also drill a drain hole at whatever level you want the tank to drain to, don't see the need for a pump. Solenoid on a timer of course for this line. Dual solenoids inline should prevent one getting stuck in the open position (assuming your using normally closed solenoids (open when power is applied). If you have a water softener, you should pull your water from an outside picket, or one that does not receive softened water.
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  14. #14
    Registered Member LoGeek's Avatar
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    Default Re: DIY automatic water changing system

    Quote Originally Posted by nc0gnet0 View Post
    I don't like the thought of timers on anything other than the drain valve. Floats should control the solenoid valves on the fill side of the equation. If you have an overflow drilled into the tank, then you should be safe from the tank ever overflowing. Putting a strainer on this should keep a dead fish from blocking the overflow. you should then also drill a drain hole at whatever level you want the tank to drain to, don't see the need for a pump. Solenoid on a timer of course for this line. Dual solenoids inline should prevent one getting stuck in the open position (assuming your using normally closed solenoids (open when power is applied). If you have a water softener, you should pull your water from an outside picket, or one that does not receive softened water.
    You have some good points but I wonder if it brings the safety level down, which is of great concern to me, without seriously cutting costs or complexity. Questions:
    - Why don't you like timers on fill side but consider them ok for drain side?
    - If only float switches control the filling solenoids, then the filling will start as soon as the water level starts sinking? Not very efficient use of water.
    - Your set up gives me four solenoids instead of two in order to get rid of a pump?
    - My biggest concern is limeting the amount of water that can leak into the house. With your set up the filling will always open when there's a low water level. That means that a leak for example in the drain bulk heads or the tank will cause the filling to start. The amount of water that will enter my house if I'm not home is then unlimited! With my proposed set up the filling amount is set by two independent timers that need to open at the same time, and filling can never occur if not. The chance of a large water leak in the drain is also limited since I have no drilled hole other than at the maximum water level.

    Thanks for helping me out and challenging my ideas! That's what hopefully will give me a reliable system in time!
    Last edited by LoGeek; 10-14-2016 at 08:18 AM.

  15. #15
    Registered Member Hart24601's Avatar
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    Default Re: DIY automatic water changing system

    Quote Originally Posted by nc0gnet0 View Post
    I don't like the thought of timers on anything other than the drain valve. Floats should control the solenoid valves on the fill side of the equation. If you have an overflow drilled into the tank, then you should be safe from the tank ever overflowing. Putting a strainer on this should keep a dead fish from blocking the overflow. you should then also drill a drain hole at whatever level you want the tank to drain to, don't see the need for a pump. Solenoid on a timer of course for this line. Dual solenoids inline should prevent one getting stuck in the open position (assuming your using normally closed solenoids (open when power is applied). If you have a water softener, you should pull your water from an outside picket, or one that does not receive softened water.
    I agree with the points here. I like the refill on floats, similar to how I have mine set up but not running a pump of course. Don't worry about wasting water, a siphon flows very, very fast. The amount of water wasted before that siphon breaks is pretty small unless you are using a crazy pump, and even then you can dial it back. -From below a 1" siphon drain that falls 36" to a drain flows around 2000 gallons per hour. Can do even 1.5" or make drop larger. 1.5" is 4500gph. That drains a tank fast. The pump to refill if on the other side of the tank doesn't go through much water with that fast of a drain. You can do that drain hole with just a 90 elbow on the bulkhead and a pipe going down too. If you have the pipe going to 1" from the bottom or so you can drill a hole half way up to stop the siphon at that point if you want and it will still pull from the bottom.

    http://www.beananimal.com/articles/h...-aquarist.aspx

    I do understand the concern of a leak on the intake, but you do risk that before the timers as well and with all the plumbing in the house to some extent! I trust dual floats more than timers...

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