75 gal Simple Grow Out

[Doc Andrew]

Greetings SD,

I've decided to document my latest project. I've enjoyed lurking around this forum for years, but it's time to put myself out there. I figure we all learn through sharing. Go easy on me

Background
I've been keeping discus for around 7 years. I consider myself more learned/knowledgable than experienced if you know what I mean.
Originally, I had 4 Wayne Ng maze and red cover/PE cross from Bob Garside at Upper Canada Discus.
When I moved I went with a batch of Stendkers from Hans. I still have a BSS, Marlborough, Flachen x SS, and RPB in a 46 gal bowfront. All are healthy and eat like pigs.
Over the years I've killed a few fish, successfully treated tapeworms and other parasites (due to LFS contamination and poor WC habits), battled a crazy work/life schedule and still managed to grow out 2.5-3 inch fish to a solid 6 inches on both occasions. Ive never attempted any breeding, however, I want to in the near future if I can budget the time.
This time I'm aiming to streamline my approach. I'm done with hauling buckets across the dining room and kitchen to get to a sink. I've been making it too hard on myself for years.

New Project
75 gal BB with stand purchased used on Kijiji. Tank was disinfected with bleach, and a neat little sandpaper trick I learned from SD helped take off the calcium deposits. Stand was sanded down and sprayed with rust-proof paint.
I will not be adding anything to this tank. I've had such bad luck adding plants and such to tanks. I always get parasites and mass amounts of diatoms. I especially hate scraping copious amounts of algae every few days.
Tank is located directly next to a wash basin. This is key for me.
DIY K1 moving bed, 2 bio filters (large and small sponges). Two air pumps to run them. I may require an upgrade on one pump.
Aqueon QuietFlow 75 - One day I want to try a sump, but it's not in the budget right now. I may DIY one out of a 10 gal I have lying around.
Jager 300W heater.
Safety Syphon from JEHM Co (350 gph) for fast and easy water changes directly into the wash basin. I'll also use a standard syphon for food clean up. I usually have 2 going at the same time to speed up the process.
55 gallon drum for aging water. It was an old vinegar drum that I purchased on kijiji for $20. I had to drill the top out to make a hole. Bleached it to disinfect, rinsed thoroughly, and used a dechlorinator to boot.
Back up heater and air stone used in the drum while aging the water - this will be new to me. Safety Syphon to pump from drum directly to the tank. NO MORE BUCKETS!!!

I also decided to try Dr. Tim's One and Only bacteria and ammonia products to cycle the tank. Bacteria, then ammonia (2 ppm) was added October 25, and API test kit was employed 24 hrs later. Ammonia still holding at 2ppm, Nitrate at 10 ppm, Nitrite at 0 ppm. This would indicate that the bacteria isn't up to snuff yet, but there is some conversion happening. I'll check the numbers again in 24 hrs to see if it's cycling. pH is at 7.6, but it comes out of the tap at 7. I'm aging water now, so I'll check the pH again tomorrow.

Seachem Safe will be employed with water changes. The backbone of this project will be a streamlined approach to water changes. The fish themselves are fantastic, but most importantly I need my new approach to be simple and painless if I ever expect to take it to the next level.

I'll be driving up to see Vern at Archer's Discus this Sunday to get a group of either 6-8 discus. It sounds like he's got 3.5-4 inchers of different varieties to chose from. His correspondence has been stellar thus far; I can't wait to meet him. It'll be a 4 hr drive to transport them, so I'll take photos as it's all happening and I'll update this thread when the fish get here.

Please feel free to share any tips or suggestions. Perhaps someone can answer a quick question right off the bat? Is it possible to put a second tank on the bottom portion of a typical 75 gal metal stand? I'm thinking about putting a shelf across the bottom portion to put another 65 gal there.

Here are a few pics for reference. Fish will be in this Sunday. I'll update this thread at that time.

Thanks,
DA

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[DiscusRob]

"Ammonia still holding at 2ppm, Nitrate at 10 ppm, Nitrite at 0 ppm"

Checking on something, did you happen to get nitrite and nitrates backwards, you shouldn't being showing 0 nitrites with amm still present, you would see amm, then nitrites, finally nitrates, if your post is accurate I would check your water supply for nitrates. jmho.

[Doc Andrew]

"Ammonia still holding at 2ppm, Nitrate at 10 ppm, Nitrite at 0 ppm"

Checking on something, did you happen to get nitrite and nitrates backwards, you shouldn't being showing 0 nitrites with amm still present, you would see amm, then nitrites, finally nitrates, if your post is accurate I would check your water supply for nitrates. jmho.

Thanks, Rob. I'm going to check the parameters again tonight after work. I'll make sure I didn't mix something up. I'll post later.

[Doc Andrew]

Ammonia now reading .5 ppm, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0.

So, I'm guessing Dr. Tim's product was a complete dud. How's that for a review? lol

New plan: Drain 55 gal of water, overdose with Safe to neutralize remaining ammonia, then add 55 gal of freshly aged water. Check paramaters again in 24 hrs.

[Davidzil]

Dr. Tim's One and Only bacteria and ammonia worked for me and several of my friends.
Hope the bottle you got was not old, or maybe the test kit.
I had fish in the tank same week.
Try a different test kit.

[Doc Andrew]

Dr. Tim's One and Only bacteria and ammonia worked for me and several of my friends.
Hope the bottle you got was not old, or maybe the test kit.
I had fish in the tank same week.
Try a different test kit.

I think I will get another test kit. I can't explain why the ammonia reading would go up like that. The Bacteria was still within the best before date and it was stored in the fridge after delivery. The wild card is that is was shipped to Canada from the States. Not sure if maybe the temperatures it was exposed to could have killed some of the bacteria? Regardless, I'll be doing copious amounts of WC so I hope to keep the water fresh while the cycle takes place.

[Filip]

Hi Doc Andrew and welcome aboard . Im glad that you have finnaly decided to join the community and share your thoughts and experience with us .
You seem pretty much knowledgable and allready experienced about keeping discus , so i dont have much to point you here .
I can only encourage you that if you are set and willing to do large daily WC with aged water , you can add discus right away and dont bother with chemisty and test kits .
I have done it on numerous occasions in my QT tank and it has worked for me . Just keep the glass and the filters completly clean and change water , as much as your discus will ask you to do . And they have their ways of telling this , im sure you already knoe that .

Good luck Andrew and keep us updated with pics and info . and dont forget that sharing makes learning much faster and easier on us

[DiscusRob]

Hi Doc Andrew and welcome aboard . Im glad that you have finnaly decided to join the community and share your thoughts and experience with us .
You seem pretty much knowledgable and allready experienced about keeping discus , so i dont have much to point you here .
I can only encourage you that if you are set and willing to do large daily WC with aged water , you can add discus right away and dont bother with chemisty and test kits .
I have done it on numerous occasions in my QT tank and it has worked for me . Just keep the glass and the filters completly clean and change water , as much as your discus will ask you to do . And they have their ways of telling this , im sure you already knoe that .

Good luck Andrew and keep us updated with pics and info . and dont forget that sharing makes learning much faster and easier on us

Filip, I'm no where near being an expert here when it comes to discus, but I've kept many rare and endangered species of African Cichlids, reef tanks, fowlr, and numerous fresh water tropical tanks of various sizes since childhood. One staple and it is a very important staple is a Very Reliable Test Kit, no matter how much water you change, you need a good test kit. You have to have one, no matter what..JMHO

[Filip]

It can most certainly help us Rob , as a pointer for the phase of the cycling process and for a piece of mind that no high levels of ammonia or nitrite are present in the water during the cycling .
I was just saying that discus can be introduced without proper cycling if we are willing to do an extra effort with WC and cleaning regime . Its a bit more risky and more work for the keeper , but its oftenly done.
i was also trying to imply that discus behavour is a pretty good and trustworthy pointer for the current water quallity .

P.S. i wrote this advice here to Andrew only because i read that he allready has 7 years of experience and theoretical knowledge of discus keeping. I woudnt dare to advice this practise to a first time dicus owner .

[Doc Andrew]

Quick update:

8 fish selected. 3 wattley turqs, 2 F2 wilds, 2 snow leopards, and a scorpion. Fish were acclimating through the night so I had the lights down. I will get some better pics tonight after all the trick or treating and a WC.

Thanks for all the comments/advice so far. I will be keeping up with massive WCs, but Vern also gave me a used sponge to help me get the cycle started.

Here's a small taste to tide everyone over.

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[Filip]

Congrats on your new discus Andrew . I think you've made a beautiful selection of discus strains.
Vern made a very big favour giving you that cycled sponge filter . You should be a lot safer from ammonia and nitrates now .
We look forward for more and better pics , as soon as your discus acclimatize and colour up again.
Your teaser pic looks promising , at least

[Doc Andrew]

Clearly I need to work on my photography skills, but you'll get the point.
After roughly 30 hours in the tank all fish have eaten BH, FBW and tetra colour bits. Fifty gal of water was changed this evening. I've also been putting peat in a sock with the bubbler in the water barrel during aging to help soften the water a bit.
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[Filip]

They are looking great Andrew. I like the snow leopards colours and dotting in the young phase.
Keep on the good work with them .

[Doc Andrew]

Thanks, Filip.

Water changes going well. Doing 50-70% nightly. The discus do look a bit stressed during this time. I think they are still settling.

Another mod that I made tonight was adding 0.5 inch blue styro to the sides and bottom of the tank. The metal stand provides no boundaries to the bottom glass and the fish seemed stressed. They'd spend all their time swimming along the bottom glass, not throughout the water column (unless all the lights are off). Problem solved, I hope.
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[Doc Andrew]

Just a quick update and a question:

8 days in the tank. 50-70% water change per day (I've never changed so much water in my life!). But my setup has worked brilliantly. It's super easy and hassle-free.

All fish are eating FDBW and BH mix.

While the lights are out they are relaxed and swim throughout the water column. When I turn the lights on they are definitely stressed, often hiding. I have to remind myself that these fish are only a few generations from being crossed to wild stock - so I'm thinking this may explain their natural response to a potential threat - ME! Overall, the fish are healthy. Minimal/no stress bars showing, only one fish clamps fins occasionally.

I'm switching from a Hagen Life-glo T8 (980 lumens I think) to an aqua-glo T8 (270 lumens) just to reduce the intensity of light. Does anyone else have any suggestions?

I would have assumed they would settle in a bit better with the lights on by now, but it's taking some time. I use a night light and only run one of two bulbs in the day and evening while I'm admiring, feeding and cleaning. I put 2 breeding cones in for structure/comfort. Plus I've planted a chair in front of the tank and I spend a good hour looking at them every day. I've also tried some hand feeding with mixed results. They are warming up to me slowly, however.

Any other tips to help these fish settle? I was hoping to keep the tank simple, but I will consider driftwood for some cover if it will help. In the meantime I'll just keep up my routine and let them adjust.