New fish possibly sick

[Mark N]

Hi first Off I am new to owning Discus. So please bare with me.
My concern
I recently purchased 7 21/2" to 3" discus. One week ago from today. Purchase date 01/14/17. Two out of the 7 are not eating. They also hide in the back of the tank alone. I also have seen white fesses floating by as well. I have been unable to locate whitch fish has dropped them. Tonight I located one fish with the white fesses hanging from him. Also on one occasion I had seen two of them rub against my heater.

The tank.
65 gallon set up two months prior to adding the Discus
Planted with driftwood and large lava rocks.
Eco complete black substrate
Two Eheim pro 4 350 canister filters. One diy reverse flow under gravel filter. Second run conventional. One contains a carbon pad the other has searchem pergin in it. Both have prefilters sponges.
One powerhead with sponge.
One air stone.
Two heaters.
One Marieland led light.

Food
I have been feeding a frozen food I purchased from Discus Madness.
Frozen blood worms
Frozen brine shrimp
Tubifex worms they don't seem too care for much.
And some tropical flake food.

Tank mates. We're added two months prior to the Discus IMG_0031.jpgIMG_0029.jpgIMG_0030.jpg
4 Singapore flower shrimp.
6 zebra nerita snails
2 otocinclus algae eater
3 Cory cats
12 neon cardinals
6 kill fish

Tank temp. Started out at 83 degrees and bumped it up to 86 degrees.
Ph high range 7.4
I should add that before adding the Discus one week ago this was at a ph level of 8.0.
Ph 7.6
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 5.0

I have been doing a 1/3 tank or approximately 20 gallon water change every other day since the addition of the Discus.
I am using domestic tap water.

Any suggestions on how to treat them? Do I treat the hole tank or just a few of the fish. What should I start with?

[Akili]

Hi Mark, Welcome to SimplyDiscus.Let me begin by mentioning that raising and also medicating juveniles in a planted tank with gravel will be difficult.Second feeding live Tubifex worms is the worst thing you do to Discus of any size.Do you have another tank for hospitalization?

[bluelagoon]

Hi and welcome.Your set up is not the greatest environment for baby discus.They are more susceptible and prone to disease in a planted tank.The substrate needs a lot of cleaning along with regular WC's.Some protozoa live in places like substrate away from oxygenated water.We see this a lot in planted baby discus tanks on this site.Altho,there are things like Hex in our tanks they seem to proliferate more in these areas and the fish are over loaded and become sick.This is another reason why the clean bare bottom tank is best to raise young discus.Good luck.

[Mark N]

Hi my apologies. Looks like I posted this in the wrong location.
To answer your question. I do have a small 10 gallon tank I was thinking of moving the invertebrates and some of the plants, then treating my whole tank. I am not sure if the other small fish may be having the same problems. So I am thinking better to treat the whole tank?
Also the tubifex worms are freeze dried.

Thank you so much. I need the help!!!

[Mark N]

I am now understanding the challenges. I am intending on removing a large portion of the plants and obstacles to make it easier to clean.
I did install 1/2" cpvc around the whole tank base with small holes in it. I filter the water through a eheim canister filter and force it back through the substrate. I was hoping this would help. This was done when I set up the tank.

[Akili]

Mark, since you are new to owning Discus I suggest that you go through all the stickies in the Beginners Section of the forum. Beginner's Guide to Getting Started with Discus is a must read for a newbie. Also make sure you watch this video If you can go with a bare bottom tank with some driftwood, maybe some plants in pots that can be moved during cleaning and water changes. Please increase the amount and frequency of your water changes.

[Mark N]

Well I removed most of the live plants. Cleaned the substrate, cleaned all my sponge prefilters, removed carbon and pergin from from canister filters. Did 90% water change. Fish look a little happier. But two out of seven still not eating. Tomorrow I will test the water again and do another water change.
Hope to see some more improvement.

[Will- in - Oz]

How much is your investment worth? Financially, ethically, emotionally? I ask that because your answer will help decide your next course of action.
OPTION #1 Pop all seven discus in a quarantine tank, buy or borrow a cheap microscope and:
Take a skin and gill scrape and look under the microscope for flukes. They're huge and easy to see on the lowest power setting; you will learn a lot developing simple microscope skills now; or
OPTION #2 An alternative to #1 is to pop all seven in a quarantine tank and find an aquatic vet who can take a gill and skin scrape for you and help with treatment. You can find your closest aquatic vet here: http://www.aquavetmed.info
OPTION #3 Pop all seven in a quarantine tank and treat as per Al's quarantine recommendations. See his sticky in this disease section.
OPTION#4 Do what most people do. Guess what is going on. Do a whole lot of water changes. Add lots of $treatments$ for your best guess. When they don't get better chuck some more meds at it. Guess again, hahaha. Add up all the treatment costs, time spent and deaths then wish you'd found out what the actual problem was by following the first options! This is the most popular path...
Lastly, while putting them in quarantine will give you some time to work this out, your ultimate solution will depend on what the disease you have and what the solution is for your planted tank. Perhaps if you want to have a mixed aquarium your best bet is to put all the fish in the Q-tank and treat everyone together. There's no point treating for e.g. flukes in a Q-Tank and then putting them back into the main tank with the other fish just to get reinfected.
The disadvantage of solving your issue in a planted tank is that plants and shrimps are very limiting of your treatment choices. And biofiltration/organic matter (plants/substrate/biofilm) may interfere with medication.

[Mark N]

Well no aquatic vets near by. So I have increased my water changes. I am only feeding flake and freeze dried foods. As I believe the store made food was contaminating the water. I decided to treat the whole tank with API general cure. The fish are not hiding alone and swimming together. One still appears not to be eating. But their general behavior looks much more normal. One thing I will say, is they all seam a bit skidish. Also I believe and I am not positive in saying that I possibly saw a dead worm about an inch long float by the other day. Would this extract the worm like that???
Ps thank you for all your input

[Akili]

Raise the temperature to 84/86 degrees F it will always stimulate their appetite.Once they are all eating lower it back to 82.

[Mark N]

Thank you. Tank temperature is currently 86 degrees. I will drop to 82 after all look healthy. I am in the process of setting up a quarantine tank in the event I need to separate one or two of them.

[Mark N]

IMG_0042.jpgIMG_0044.jpgOk so I have been treating the whole tank with API general cure. Had not seen any real change. Still two fish have not eaten in two weeks. I dosed the whole tank with 1 teaspoon of Epson salt per 10 gallons of water last night. Tonight I see the fish in the back left with white stringy poop hanging. This is one of the two not eating. Also see one fish that has been eating well with a white spot on his side.
Any suggestions how I should proceed????

[Mark N]

IMG_0046.jpg found this on my plants today. Any possible link to the fish being sick?

[bluelagoon]

The link to the fish being sick is because of their environment and low WC's.Plus they are more active and out going in larger groups.Less baby discus = more stress.

[Mark N]

I am not new to owning fish. This tank is and was set up specificly for the Discus just 3 months back. . It is a 65 gallon tank, with 265 gallons worth of filtration. My substrate is cleaned weekly with a 90% water change. I also was doing a 20% water change every other day the first week I got the fish. I was informed that the water changes should be greater. So for this past week I have been doing 50% water changes daily. I stopped feeding anything other then dry foods to prevent any possiblity of food going bad in the tank. Water test are all perfect!!!! I have taken several additional steps to make certain that their environment is clean and the best possible. I purchased all seven two weeks ago. And five out of the seven have been and are perfect as are all the other fish. It is only the two , and they have not eaten since he day I brought them home.
Now hat being said.
I am looking for experienced help as to what is wrong with them and how to proceed to help cure them. The fish two have not eaten a thing since the day I purchased them. Just two weeks back.