First sump, is my plan any good?

[Killamanjaro]

Firstly, hi and hello everyone!

I've been a lurker her for a while and learned loads from the posts. I've come to the conclusion that I'll be getting discus soon and have been doing the relevant research and planning. I have fish already (rams and tetras and a few other community fish) and I'd be getting my discus at around 6-7in in size and would be picking from red turq, galaxy turq or red spotted green discus and hopefully get something like some of the awesome tanks I've seen on here.

This sump design would be filtering a 6x2.5x1.5ft tank (this may get bigger but sump wont) with a volume of 640L/168G, the sump would be 4x1.8x1.5ft and a volume of 312L/82G
Total volume of sump and display tank is 950L/251G

The planned tank would be housing the following:
Apistogramma agassizii cuipeua x1
Apistogramma trifasciata x1
Yellow phantom tetras x15
Black phantom tetras x15
Green phantom pleco x1
German blue rams x2
Electric blue acara x1
Pristella tetras x15
Emerald corys x8
Discus x6-8

The tank would be a planted tank with some fine gravel as a substrate and rocks and drift/bog wood decor.

The sump I design I have worked I hope will be up to the job and ensure I have descent mechanical and preferably more than enough biological filtration.

I have the first section which would consist of my mechanical filtration, mainly different grade of foams.
The second section would consist of a moving bed filter using k1 media and some air disks to keep movement going.
The section would be filled with biohome media for more biological filtration. I love this media!
The fourth section would be a refugium (potted and capped plants) just to help absorb excess nitrates etc.
The fifth section I would keep as a fish isolation zone in case of any bullying in future, this is not a quarantine section.
The sixth and final section would be the heater and return pump.

Freshwater sump design K1.jpg

I'm thinking that because the display tank would be planted I may not need the fourth section/refugium in the sump, what do you guys think?

Still to work out are type of overflow (maybe a bean animal type), size of return pump (eheim 1260 maybe) where to dose co2 in return section of sump or in display tank?

I'm trying to achieve a tank with minimal equipment visible if not zero equipment visible.

Maintenance would be done twice a week consisting of 25-50% water changes, gravel cleaning, glass cleaning and plant tidy.

I'm trying to get all the planning done now so that I can go straight into it when I've got the space free'd up.

In theory I think my sump plan is pretty good. Is there anything I may have missed?

[Phillydubs]

Damn man that is a hefty sump! Looks like overkill to me but I don't mean that in a bad way. Given the size and all you have a lot to work with!

I've never done plants in a sump so can't help you there. But it sounds like you have a nice plan in place. Recently a few folks were raving about the bean animal. W a sump that size I don't see an issue hiding everything !

Sounds like you did your research in size of fish and all. Can't wait to see it all come together. And welcome out of your creeper lurker status and to a full fledge poster!! Haha!

[Pardal]

I am pretty sure you will have some kind of lighting for your potted plants as well. I used to put floating photos in my sump before, they work okay but not necessary work to my expectations. I won't put any fish in the area after the plants as their waste and bio-load will ruin all the previous work done by your different stages of filtration and plants.
I can't wait to see your tank. best of luck
Julian.

[Killamanjaro]

Thanks for the reply guys!

@Phillydubs thanks for the warm welcome. Yeah I've done my research but still struggle to differentiate between which discus strains are which... especially when lighting makes them look a bit different lol

@Pardal Yes I would have a small LED system just above the potted plant section to help with their growth. Would it be best to run the sump light when the tank light is off or just run them both at the same time?

It's a good point you make about the isolation section undoing the work done by the previous filtration stages, I didn't actually consider that. So if I am to have an in sump isolation section, I take it that it should ideally be before the mechanical filtration?

I'm playing the long game here so tank wont be up for a while... but it will be awesome when it is!

[JBurgo]

Seems like a while to reply and bump this thread, sorry, but you say it's the start of a long project.

10 points for thought:

1. Bioload is bioload, how can it matter whether a fish is taking a dump in your filter or in your tank? It would actually be worse in the entry of your sump because the poop would travel into your bio media, without being removed by the mechanical filtration.

2. Biological Media types are up to personal preference, but anything that requires an air stone requires a noisy air pump, and to this day I've not heard a quiet one of those. Something to consider if you want a quiet system.. (or why bother with a Bean Animal, might as well just throw a Durso Standpipe in there and hopefully the gurgling will cover the noise of the air pump ). If you want aeration, I recommend Bio Balls, you could make a waterfall and drip tray, excellent use of space while providing room for overflow from the main tank.

3. The biggest problem I see with your sump is there's no room for overflow, for when you turn off your pump (or get a power failure). One of the jobs of a sump is to receive the overflow from the tank. You need to approximate the overflow and make sure your sump won't overflow.

4. Along with this problem, the sections need to level down in height a bit to allow the water pressure to carry the water into the next section without overflowing the one before it.

5. All those thin bubble traps are going to be hell to clean, I would certainly do something different there. Everything you put in your sump design, think.. how am I going to clean that /under that? What if something falls down there? How will I adjust that heater? How will I get the return pump out when I need to do that? etc.

6. Following the above principals, the water level in your Return Pump section will be the lowest.. which means it's probably not the best area for a heater unless it's lying down.

7. It's probably a bad area for the Purigen, in the lowest area of the mechanical filtration. I think weight will be on it, compacting the beads diminishing flow, also, the low point is where crud will probably gather. I'd rather see it in the top of one of the following sections, or in a reactor? Have a look at my sump.

8. Think of the areas where crud will gather, plan for it by leaving a gap where the water begins to flow up, put some course sponge media above the gap, so that any crud will settle below it. You can easily syphon it out then.

9. Mechanical Filtration. It doesn't look like you've planned for it to fail? Or anything to fail for that matter, because all the lines go to the top of the lid. The amount of filter media in the mechanical section may slow the flow down too much and overflow the system? I love filter socks, others hate them, but they give good flow when cleaned regularly. The thing I wouldn't like about what you're doing is, when you pull out the media, a lot of the crud falls back into the sump. But more importantly, if it clogs, the water needs to be able to overflow into the rest of the sump.

10. Look into the Herbie system as well as the Bean Animal. The Herbie is awesome.

[JamesW]

While my system is admittedly much smaller I'll offer my experience in both reef and discus sumps having built exactly 1 of each...

I agree with JBurgo, Herbie is awesome. Totally silent.

With either Herbie or Bean Animal your return section will need to be adequately sized to keep pumping water to enable the siphon of a Herbie or Bean Animal to start. If it isn't large enough the siphon never gets going and the return sucks air, the intake sucks air and it sounds like someone finishing a milkshake through a straw for eternity. The size it is now I would be very skeptical the siphon would establish without the return sucking dry first.
You can find all you need to know about the Herbie setup and much much more here: http://gmacreef.com/herbie-overflow-...method-basics/

The flow re-directions are very difficult to clean and a lot of stuff gets stuck there. They won't clog but you will never get them as clean as you want.

I've used poret foam in my sump: http://www.swisstropicals.com/librar...ls-poret-foam/ The owner of the site has a PhD in something related to aquaculture and is extremely helpful.
I really like it and use essentially this format: http://www.swisstropicals.com/wp_sit...ump-layout.pdf I use 3 x 3" piece of 10, 20 and 30 ppi pieces in a 29 gallon sump for a 90g display.
This is the USA distributor of the material used for the mattenfilters advocated by Stendker. Discus Hans name also shows up on the website as a customer.


Could you incorporate something similar and have a K1 reactor in the sump after the filtration similar to a protein skimmer? Same for purigen. Could you have a mixed purigen/K1 reactor?

If you are growing plants in the display tank why do you want plants in the sump? Wouldn't you just be pulling nutrients from the water column that would be utilized by the plants in the main tank? Reef's have macroalgae in the sump so that algae can't grow on the corals in the main tank. Seems counter intuitive to have plants in a sump sucking nutrients away from the plants you have in the main tank.

Is the fish isolation zone for medication? Stopping bullying? Time out? Observation? A different option is to put the sponge of a small sponge filter into your sump just bobbing around and when you need to setup a quarantine/hospital tank just grab the sponge, assemble and fill with water and you have an instant fully cycled quarantine/hospital tank.

[Killamanjaro]

JBurgo & JamesW thanks for the replies guys, its the kind of info I was after

Right so I'll be going for the herbie drain system and rearrange the sump and get rid of the refugium and isolation bit, the sponge idea is awesome.

I checked out the sump and will get rid of the many baffles and bubble traps... I'll post up again when I've got an updated sump design.

Also I can use a smaller sump size. What would you guys recommend for the tank planned?

[Neptune]

You also don't need three pieces for baffles like you have for the two before your pump. You will get the same effect with two.

[Ryan925]

You also don't need three pieces for baffles like you have for the two before your pump. You will get the same effect with two.

Agreed the last (3rd) baffle of your bubble trap is not needed. You actually want the water entering your return section under a baffle not over.