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Thread: What to buy?

  1. #1
    Homesteader RogueDiscus's Avatar
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    Default What to buy?

    I'm thinking about joining the photo club here on SD I'm a total novice, but would put in the time to learn. I'm wondering what to look for to buy. Can I walk into Costco and pick something decent from their selection? They've got a Canon EOS 80D and a Nikon D7200 DSLR, both with 2 lenses, 18-55 mm and 55-250 or 300 mm for about $1350. Is that too much camera? Or can I grow into it? Probably obviously I really don't know what I'm looking for. I'd like to be able to nice outdoor photos. Any advice or suggestions appreciated. Really just starting to research.
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    Administrator brewmaster15's Avatar
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    Default Re: What to buy?

    Steve,
    I can't help on the Nikon or Canon as I am only familar with Pentax, but I would suggest looking at
    https://www.adorama.com/
    https://www.bhphotovideo.com/

    box stores can be iffy with camera gear.

    Lens that come with Cameras as a kit are often intro level lens added as fillers to make the deal look good. They are good beginner lens but they often are just "ok" Sometimes its better to buy the body separate and buy the lens separate..
    I'm sure the others will chime in with more helpful info,

    al
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    Homesteader RogueDiscus's Avatar
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    Default Re: What to buy?

    Thanks Al. Pentax, I knew there was another name out there, just couldn't recall it. I haven't talked to my dad about it, but he bought a bag full of new camera gear, one of the main brands, probably around 1980. He never got into using it as much as he thought he would. It sits in his closet. (There's a warning there, right?) It would obviously not be a digital body, but I was wondering if all his lenses and whatever else he has would be compatible with a newer body from the same maker. Maybe I'd ask him about selling it to me. Is it worth looking into?
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    Administrator brewmaster15's Avatar
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    Default Re: What to buy?

    Quote Originally Posted by RogueDiscus View Post
    Thanks Al. Pentax, I knew there was another name out there, just couldn't recall it. I haven't talked to my dad about it, but he bought a bag full of new camera gear, one of the main brands, probably around 1980. He never got into using it as much as he thought he would. It sits in his closet. (There's a warning there, right?) It would obviously not be a digital body, but I was wondering if all his lenses and whatever else he has would be compatible with a newer body from the same maker. Maybe I'd ask him about selling it to me. Is it worth looking into?
    Definitely worth looking into! Thats why I stayed with Pentax all these years. Every single pentax lens made from the film days and digital days works on a digital pentax body. Of course the older ones are manual lens but most photographers are comfortable with manual shooting. If you have access to alot of pentax lens... then I would consider the pentax k3... plenty of power there and can be had really reasonable@about $600. The k 1 just came out but at 1800 its probably a bit steep for a beginner.
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    Registered Member rickztahone's Avatar
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    Default Re: What to buy?

    You have so many options. One thing to remember is that almost any body you see under $1000 with "kit" lenses is going to be almost exactly the same across platforms. They aren't that different from one another. Now if you go mirrorless, that is a little different but I won't tackle that subject here.

    If you don't mind used bodies for more capable camera bodies, check out keh.com for used gear. They rate their equipment very well and their warranty offering is very very good.

    Imho, if you are going to go with a Canon "rebel", buying a t3/t4/t5 isn't much different really. They are still entry level. You can ask Matt about Canon more specifically as this is his camp, but I'm sure he would agree.
    Last edited by rickztahone; 01-28-2017 at 08:55 PM.

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    Registered Member Discus-n00b's Avatar
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    Default Re: What to buy?

    EDIT: Just was about to post and realized I can ramble all day about this. Hope something makes sense.

    I tend to agree with Ricardo, they are all fairly similar especially at lower levels that is why I usually recommend going and holding them. The bodies differ a little bit for each brand, find what feels good to you. I wouldn't base my whole decision on this, but it might sway you one way or the other if you are on the fence. I like shopping online too, but I'm willing to bet Costco is an authorized dealer and you should have no issues from there if you wanted to go that route. For the package it's a pretty good deal, I'm speaking Canon wise since that is all I know. If you bought the lenses separately it'd cost about $548 brand new, with the kit you are getting them for about $300. And it gives you an 18-250 range give or take. It's not the best glass out there, but a single really good piece of glass costs just as much as the camera body so you will probably be fine starting out with kit type lenses. I like zooms to start, as you advance start getting into the primes (the fixed focal length glass) Or if there is a lens you know you really want that costs $300-600 you can get that with the body and it'd come out about the same. I'd classify the 80D as a lower, mid tier camera out of 3 total tiers. Not quite entry level like the Rebel line but nothing that should overwhelm you once you learn the basics. It is actually a very versatile and good all around camera if you want to do some video and stuff too. The 80D and it's little brother which it replaced the 70D are one of the current favorites for the Vloggers who use a DSLR to film. It even has a little flip out screen everyone seems to love for some reason (I don't, I hate them if you couldn't tell but that shouldn't really be a deciding factor in this case anyway lol).

    When it comes down to it, the glass is going to make the biggest difference going forward. Or at least going to make the biggest difference sooner. Bodies will have some upgrades like high ISO capabilities, better handling of the noise in the image sensor wise, dynamic range, and auto focus but when it comes down to it glass gives you the biggest boost in most situations IMO. And they last a whole hell of a lot longer than a body will so you can build a collection over time. I'm currently using an 8 year old body, Al's are probably older. So the bodies can stay relevant, just certain situations you find other bodies can do something a little bit better. My point is start out with the best body you want to or can afford and then pour money from then on into glass until you find yourself limited by the bodies capabilities. IMO at least. It is my guidance though, that if you go Canon and are serious about it and really get into the hobby, to look at mostly EF lenses going forward. EF and EF-S are the lens mounts, all crop bodies have an EF-S mount. Nothing wrong with them, but your EF lenses can fit on your EF-S mount, but an EF-S lens can't fit an EF mount. So build your collection around the EF lenses, it's my opinion that it will save you money in the long run and if you ever decide to sell your EF lenses will generally have a greater resell value than the EF-S lenses. They do cost more, but they will generally score better than any EF-S lens as well image quality wise. Having said that, I'm not trying to totally turn you off from some of the cheap EF-S lenses out there, price wise, just want you to have it in the back of your brain if getting serious in the hobby. I think you will be fine starting out on kit lenses, they sure seem better than they used to when I first got my first DSLR.

    Now, let me save you some money. If you have no problem buying used. Like Ricardo mentioned, very reputable site. I own lenses from them currently and never had an issue.
    Body straight from Canon refurbished, should come with a 1 year refurbished limited warranty - https://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/c...dy-refurbished
    Lens 18-55. Go ahead and get the $126 one if you want the hood it will save you $5 if you buy the hood later, if not buy the next with caps. Lens hood is to help stop lens flares in bright sun. I have honestly never really used one - https://www.keh.com/shop/canon-18-mm...n-ef-ef-s.html
    Lens 55-250. I'd go with the $144. - https://www.keh.com/shop/canon-55-mm...n-ef-ef-s.html

    Buying above would save you about $230 from a brand new kit that you can use on a bag, extra battery, larger memory card, or to just put in your pocket if you have everything else.
    Last edited by Discus-n00b; 01-28-2017 at 10:40 PM.
    -Matt


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    Homesteader RogueDiscus's Avatar
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    Default Re: What to buy?

    Thanks Ricardo and Matt for all the information. It gives me a lot to go on and learn about as I start shopping. Matt, I understand your point about the glass making the most difference. Kind of like the speakers in a sound system. I'll definitely be checking in as I get closer to buying.
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    Administrator and MVP Dec.2015 Second Hand Pat's Avatar
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    Default Re: What to buy?

    Hi Steve, I shoot with Nikon so and started with a Nikon D7000. It is a crop frame (smaller then a full frame, called DX by Nikon) and is a 2010 body. I agree to start with a body only and buy the lens separate. My first lens was a 35mm prime lens and it only runs about $190. A prime lens has no zoom so you zoom with your feet.

    As you have seen I have been mentored quite nicely here on the forum by Ricardo, Stan, Matt and Al and my photography skills are improving. The reason I started with a DSLR was I wanted to take better fish pictures. However I sat on Auto mode for two years before it being gently suggested by Paul (pcsb23, former admin on SD) to try Aperture Priority and the rest is history here on SD.

    I like the D7000 and have taken lots of great pictures with it. Early last year I upgraded as I wanted a faster camera and bought the Nikon D500 (again a crop frame) for shooting bird in flight. I love the new camera but still have not gotten the best it has to offer.

    When considering which brand of camera and weather you want a full sensor and crop sensor remember you are buying into a (possible) set of lens so consider carefully.
    Pat
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    Homesteader RogueDiscus's Avatar
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    Default Re: What to buy?

    Thanks Pat. I'll probably look into it more, but does a crop frame body use a different set of lenses and/or have a different mount? Can you tell me the main difference in what you're trying to get with a crop vs full frame? Thanks.
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    Administrator and MVP Dec.2015 Second Hand Pat's Avatar
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    Default Re: What to buy?

    Steve, a crop frame in-essence takes a smaller picture then a full frame. If you are taking a picture of a sunrise you can get more of the sky in the picture with a full frame. On the Nikon camera's (or at least on the D7000 and D500 you can mount a full frame lens on the crop frame camera. I op-ed for a crop frame camera because it is a bit lighter. Also if you mount a full frame lens on a crop frame camera you get a little more shooting distance. I am sure Ricardo and/or Matt can explain this better then me.
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  11. #11
    Registered Member Discus-n00b's Avatar
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    Default Re: What to buy?

    I believe all brands have different mounts for crop and full frame. And I believe like Canon the FF lenses can backmount onto the crop mount, but the crop mount can't mount on the FF.

    To me any wide angle work, landscapes, architecture, or shooting in mostly lower/available light scenes a Full Frame might be fore you. Keep in mind full frame bodies generally are more expensive and heavier. A crop body will usually do just fine for most people and if you factor in crop factor to your lens choices you won't be hampered by field of view. A crop body is great for wildlife because you get a little extra reach on the subject. And let me clarify, it won't provide extra magnification. But for example if you placed a full frame 200mm on a crop body, it will still always produce 200mm of viewing however the camera will crop out the center portion of that image leaving you with what 320mm would see on a full frame body. No extra magnification though. Because of the 1.6x crop factor (for the Canon the Nikon is 1.5), if you use the non crop lenses it will change the focal length. Someone please correct me if my numbers here are wrong but with a 1.6 crop a 14mm becomes roughly a 22mm, 35mm becomes a 56mm, 200mm becomes 320mm. And again, you don't gain the difference of 8mm, 20mm, 120mm you just see the equivalent field of view. If you go Canon and go with their EF-S lenses for an 80D you don't have to worry about the numbers as whats said on the lens is what you get since they are made for crop sensors. It's only when you move to the EF version of the lens. But like Pat, we usually end up moving off to larger, more expensive lenses made for full frame cameras. It just tends to be better to be honest because they are catering to pros at that point.

    The reason I recommended the crop lenses above is because I didn't know your budget or how seriously you wanted to jump right into this. I figured ~$300 is a minor expense to decide if this is something you want to continue to pursue. Not the best lenses, but it'd decent enough for you to decide if I like it or not. I will be glad to help spend your money on more serious gear though!! LOL

    I find the images here to really help explain it. The site is video, so don't take every word for law but the images provide insight into what is going on. Especially the shark and the fox. The focal length of the lens won't physically change, ever. But the crop gives you an equivilant field of view as another lens.
    http://www.red.com/learn/red-101/sensor-crop-factors
    Last edited by Discus-n00b; 01-29-2017 at 12:42 PM.
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  12. #12
    Registered Member rickztahone's Avatar
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    Default Re: What to buy?

    One main difference for Pro's to switch from crop sensor to FF is simply DOF purity. F/1.4 on a cropped body will not produce the same DOF (depth of field) as a full frame. It is difficult to explain but easy to see on side to side comparisons, at least to a trained eye.

    For now, I can 100% guarantee you that a cropped sensor will satisfy your photography needs, at least as you learn the craft

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    Registered Member Discus-n00b's Avatar
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    Default Re: What to buy?

    Quote Originally Posted by rickztahone View Post
    One main difference for Pro's to switch from crop sensor to FF is simply DOF purity. F/1.4 on a cropped body will not produce the same DOF (depth of field) as a full frame. It is difficult to explain but easy to see on side to side comparisons, at least to a trained eye.

    For now, I can 100% guarantee you that a cropped sensor will satisfy your photography needs, at least as you learn the craft
    Agreed!
    -Matt


  14. #14
    Photo Guru SMB2's Avatar
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    Default Re: What to buy?

    Steve I can't say I have much to add from the above.
    To start I wouldn't worry too much about the technical stuff. If you really get into photography, this will not be your last camera! I definitely think you should look around for a friendly camera shop. There must be a few in SD. Work with the one that will take the time to explain features etc. and will let you get hands on.
    Most are aware of the online prices and you can always compare. (I live near D.C. and have a great little hole in the wall camera shop I go to.If you find a legitimate deal on line, they will match it on the spot. Bought a very expensive camera from them that had a faulty button, they replaced it on the spot. I do buy stuff on line because after cameras and lenses most shops don't carry high end tripods, ball heads etc.)
    I think a camera club is a great idea.

    There are so many issues that go into making a choice. Money is certainly at the top of the list. What do you think you would like to shoot, how much time do you have to devote to the hobby, on and on.
    If you have the money I would start with a mid range model. They will come with a kit lens or two. Use them, find out if you like the process of photography and worry about bigger better lenses later. Get something you are likely to carry around, so the suggestion of a cropped sensor for a smaller body is a good one. Sony, Fuji, Pentax, Olympus for mirrorless are all a great idea for smaller lighter cameras. If you think you are going to do a lot of wildlife shooting then I might advise that you go with a DSLR.
    One thing to remember is that you are not buying just a camera system. You need to invest time and money into computer programs and space on your computer. If you don't learn how to organize and process your images then you will quickly lose interest.
    Last edited by SMB2; 02-05-2017 at 10:48 AM.
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