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Thread: Commercial Breeders

  1. #46
    Registered Member bluelagoon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Commercial Breeders

    Quote Originally Posted by DISCUS STU View Post
    I knew a guy that was trying to do this in Paterson, NJ but this was before the internet. As stated previously, the cost of the doing this on a big scale is cost prohibitive even I think there are still commercial fish farms in the U.S. I assume the higher cost for heat is probably a deciding factor.
    For the most part I believe they use out door ponds.

  2. #47
    Registered Member pastry's Avatar
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    Default Re: Commercial Breeders

    Had to laugh a little at what the thread reminded me of. In 8th grade when someone asked what I wanted to do when I got older, I said, "Discus breeding". Yeeeaaah... nope. Still love the hell out of them but other countries can produce more for cheaper. I still think a profit could be achieved with future innovation regarding WC, baby Discus foods that readily negate bbs, etc...(plus higher demand... and not enough demand right now). Just not now.
    -Elliot

  3. #48
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    Default Re: Commercial Breeders

    Hello to all,

    My first post.

    I sure enjoyed the thread. Lido, there have been many excellent posts by wise people that would love for you to succeed. I think that if you have the fire and passion to start and continue this thread through 4 pages, that there is something here for you. It may not end up exactly as you first thought, but one way or the other you will benefit.

    I have been pursuing my passion of running a small organic farm for 20 years and though I am not rich, it is all paid for. I do not try to compete with the big farms, find your niche as a previous post stated. Do what you love. Use your talents. Think outside the box

    Also from a previous post was the mention of wild strains. There is a very interesting thread by Alex in Germany on how was developing his own strain of red-spotted greens which will remain true to the wild type. I wonder why no-one is doing that here. Maybe TRUE wild types will become more popular and you can charge a premium to counter the higher costs here? Personally, I will be getting some wilds in the Fall but just for fun.

    One last point, you are probably going to have to keep your day job (I also work as a carpenter) and I have had several very successful men tell me that its best to have more than one thing going on. In my experience, maybe 1 out of 3 of my ideas paid off. But some did and I own my farm (lock, stock and aquariums) ;-)

    Best of Luck to You. Please, let us know of your success.

    andy
    Last edited by andy77; 03-12-2017 at 02:23 AM.

  4. #49
    Registered Member Clawhammer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Commercial Breeders

    I would find the demand side of the equation too discouraging to embark on such a project. It seems like you would need to develop a global market as a pre-req to breaking even. Also, you would surely have to sell to companies that you know will not properly care for the fish.

    It would be amazing to make a living working with discus, but you are probably more likely to make a living in the sport of throwing discus..
    Last edited by Clawhammer; 03-12-2017 at 11:37 AM.

  5. #50
    Administrator brewmaster15's Avatar
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    Default Re: Commercial Breeders

    One of the easiest ways for a person to kill their passion for a hobby is to try and turn it into a legit money making business! Some can do that... but I have seen many many many more that have not succeeded with discus. And honestly even among those that "succeed".. Staying afloat and making money are not the same thing.


    I'd much rather stay a hobby breeder !

    al
    AquaticSuppliers.com Freeze Dried BlackWorms and other foods your Discus will Love!!!


    >>>>>I am a science guy.. show me the science minus the BS

    Al Sabetta
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  6. #51
    Silver Member Willie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Commercial Breeders

    Back when I had 4 pairs going, I went to several local shows in the Midwest to peddle the young. Like Brew said, it's not nearly as enjoyable going to a show when you're keeping track of how many fish you need to sell to break even.

    Like everything else in business, it's not how much you can produce, it's how much you can sell.

    Willie
    At my age, everything is irritating.

  7. #52
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    Default Re: Commercial Breeders

    Hi Lido
    I think the advice given by all these experienced home breeders are great and well meaning. But for a person with passion and fire to start a business out of breeding discus, all these talk are sometime meaningless. Afterall how many great successful guy start by listening to people. Question is are you this great successful guy? Test it out. Start by say 20 tanks. Breed the best discus you can and start selling it. The cost and pain will be small. If you have started to make an impact, then go to 30 tanks or 50 tanks. Attend competition. Talk to international breeders and commercial sellers and importer and even your local LFS. Learn the tricks of the trade. Work your way up. This way your mistakes(which will be many) can be managed. You know you are ready when you start winning competition. Then you have a basis for charging a higher premium for your fish.
    Having said this, there are many many out there that start this way and stop at 10 tanks. There are many reasons. Their breeding turn out substandard fish or the fishes just don't breed or disease keep on hitting them. Or they just do not have the time. They just dare not let go their full time job. So bottom line is it is great to have a dream. Indulge in it as much as you can afford. But watch your step one at a time.
    At this stage you may be laughing nonstop. Why so serious? you may ask. I only ask a question on why are there no commercial breeder in the States? LOL

  8. #53
    Registered Member Carolina discus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Commercial Breeders

    Hi Lido and Gang....
    Hope everyone is well...since I was mentioned in several posts I thought it would be appropriate to give some thoughts. I can only speak on our personal experiences and always keep in mind there is no one exact 'expert way" to keep discus....yes there are the very basics but you have to find out what works for you and build on it. Alot of experienced people had given some input with some very valid points that should be considered.

    Here are a few thoughts?
    There are no large scale commercial discus breeding farms in the US because you simply cannot compete with the advantages the farms is Asia have. That is not a slight in any way....I believe Asian breeders have had huge contributions to the discus world and their contributions cannot be understated. The facts are the facts...they have much lower labor rates, little electrical costs, little/no heating bills, plus they have the right water parameters usually to breed with no issues. Yes they have expenses and what they do is pretty amazing in my eyes....my point is the costs of running an operation per sq foot is just not comparable. One of the biggest advantages is the availability of great water in massive amounts....in order to be successful on a commercial scale the amount of water needed is unbelievable.
    I am sure the great German breeders like Stendker and to a lesser extend Alex have higher costs as well...much closer to the US than Asia. But their success to me is the exception rather than the rule. What Stendker does on such a high quality scale must really be amazing to see....I spent hours over the years watching Asian Farms and would love to see how things look in Stendker's hatchery. They must be masters at water mastery!
    There are soooo many issues that haven't even been talked about regarding costs...freight is a killer in the US...it is the number one reason we lose orders from possible customers.
    Anyone can disagree but look at the hard facts.....there have been numerous companies over the years that started off trying to breed and they end up importing...why? because you make way more money importing than you do breeding...period.
    Here are a few brief points as well:
    1. consistency is our number 1 hurdle and I have to believe it a major issue for many if not all.....anyone can get a spawn from 2 healthy fish once...that's not magic...its called mother nature...but getting that same pair to spawn successfully 20 times in a row with no mishaps, that is pure skill. I believe that in order to have a commercial farm you would need hundreds of pairs...you have to have consistency over and over in every "hot" strain.
    2. Too many people do the "discus math" forecast....hell lets be honest we all did! LOL If I have 1 pair of discus and they have 400 fry every 4 weeks and I can sell them for $30 each we will make XXX...if I multiply that by 10 pairs we would make XXX, we can make alot of money!...is doesn't work that way... way too many variables and quality must be the number 1 factor...there will be times when you only get 20 pieces from a spawn of 50 that are grade A and the rest get tossed. Other times pairs eat their spawns or fry, they could start fighting all the sudden. You can have issues getting the water right consistently. and on and on and on...oh yeah, then they go off cycle and you just have to wait.

    A few very quick points:
    - no one in the US is breeding on a commercial scale..if they tell you they are John is right...they are lying to you.
    - LFS will not give you what you need to make on a discus. We get asked all the time to sell wholesale and it never works out for us. Example, a LFS near us contacted us to buy our
    fish and they said they were paying $15 for a 3.5" discus from malaysia and they were tied of getting b grade fish and the shipping costs and losses and wanted to find a reliable
    source...we told them we could not meet that price and gave detailed info into the reasons why and they were pissed at us. Even when we showed them what their actual costs were
    per fish after their losses and freight and we would be saving them $10 a fish they were offended....the kicker is I went to see the store a few months later and they were selling the
    same fish they bought for $15 for $99!!!!!!

    We are flattered we have been mentioned in this thread...we certainly are not a commercial breeder and this is definitely not our only job. We consider ourselves an "advanced hobbyist with a small hatchery" ...we don't do this for the money, most time there isn't any left at the end of the month. no BS...its the fact. We do this as a family business and some times we cover costs and sometimes we dont...and dont think you are going to have more time to spend with your family...it is truly a full time job. We breed about 85%-90% of what we sell...we buy select groups from our supplier on strains we don't breed but our customers want...we also bring in fish for breeding stock and release extra pieces we wont use as well as extra adults.
    We breed about 20 pairs and sell probably 60% mail order and the rest pick ups...as mentioned we had a malfunction on a vale about 12 months ago and we lost everything...over $40k in stock and the 3 years it took to get us to that point. Think about that....to get back to square one it has taken us over a year and we still had the $1500 in expenses it takes to run the hatchery each month. Plus think about the amount of money it takes to get the amount and quality of stock needed to breed.

    I am running on the road so I am probably jumping around a bit...wanted to make a few points. I recommend to anyone to keep and breed discus as it really is an amazing experience...just do it for the love of the fish.

    We are almost back ....please consider supporting a true US discus breeder....we have some amazing fish we will be breeding we have kept on the DL that are going to surprise a lot of people!
    Last edited by Carolina discus; 04-26-2017 at 11:42 PM. Reason: spelling
    Regards,
    Eric
    Carolina Discus
    www.carolinadiscus.com

  9. #54
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    Default Re: Commercial Breeders

    Hi.. I live in Indonesia, South East Asia near Malaysia. most of the commercial discus breeders live in West Java region, mostly bekasi and jakarta. and they have good water parameter on their well water.
    Just do basic.

    + bare bottom tanks
    + no need to paint the background, some breeders just put used styrofoam or white paper between tanks. (some of the breeders paint the background)
    + Free Well Water (TDS = around 60-80), and very cheap Tap water (around 2-5 cents per m3) - Aged + Aeration + filter
    + Cheap Electric Bill
    + no need for heater (around 28-32 C). (heater just for sick fish)
    + Cheap worker, just pay for 150-200 US dollars a month.
    + Cheap tax
    + Just sponge filter
    + Do 90-100% water change once a day or twice a day
    + Cheap food (Mostly Frozen Blood worm and Beefheart)

    Good quality discus, low cost

    Adult discus 5 inch up = around 50-100 US dollars
    younger discus = around 5-40 US dollars
    Discus proven pair = around 100-300 US dollars
    Last edited by EAGLE 1 ARMY; 02-09-2019 at 01:41 PM.

  10. #55
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    Default Re: Commercial Breeders

    Quote Originally Posted by EAGLE 1 ARMY View Post
    Hi.. I live in Indonesia, South East Asia near Malaysia. most of the commercial discus breeders live in West Java region, mostly bekasi and jakarta. and they have good water parameter on their well water.
    Just do basic.

    + bare bottom tanks
    + no need to paint the background, some breeders just put used styrofoam or white paper between tanks. (some of the breeders paint the background)
    + Free Well Water (TDS = around 60-80), and very cheap Tap water (around 2-5 cents per m3) - Aged + Aeration + filter
    + Cheap Electric Bill
    + no need for heater (around 28-32 C). (heater just for sick fish)
    + Cheap worker, just pay for 150-200 US dollars a month.
    + Cheap tax
    + Just sponge filter
    + Do 90-100% water change once a day or twice a day
    + Cheap food (Mostly Frozen Blood worm and Beefheart)

    Good quality discus, low cost

    Adult discus 5 inch up = around 50-100 US dollars
    younger discus = around 5-40 US dollars
    Discus proven pair = around 100-300 US dollars
    I was just there from Singapore(CrazyRichAsian Tour) Discus were dirt cheap same as Thailand.

    Now for the wholesale San Francisco Bay Area price
    run around 5 dollars for 2 inches without the tail landed.
    Usually the wholesaler wants to buy 150 pieces of
    one strain. There not to much

    profit to be make because there is still federal and state tax to be paid.

    Cliff
    Last edited by CliffsDiscus; 02-09-2019 at 04:16 PM.

  11. #56
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    Default Re: Commercial Breeders

    Here is a good article on the subject as well: https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pdffiles/FA/FA16600.pdf

  12. #57
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    Default Re: Commercial Breeders

    Quote Originally Posted by gators111 View Post
    Here is a good article on the subject as well: https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pdffiles/FA/FA16600.pdf
    That was a good read.. It looks like it was created last year. while reading I could see abunch of references to other research and papers I have read. I did note a probable type-o or misunderstanding on the part of the authors.
    Raising the temperature and slightly lowering the pH of the water have been known to serve as environmental triggers to spawning.
    Generally we lower the water temp to induce spawning , not raise it.

    al
    AquaticSuppliers.com Freeze Dried BlackWorms and other foods your Discus will Love!!!


    >>>>>I am a science guy.. show me the science minus the BS

    Al Sabetta
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    Aquaticsuppliers.com


    I take Pics.. click here for my Flickr images

  13. #58
    Silver Member Willie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Commercial Breeders

    The conclusion of this report that "discus is a good candidate for aquaculture" is remarkable given the complete absence of any market analysis.

    Willie
    At my age, everything is irritating.

  14. #59
    Administrator brewmaster15's Avatar
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    Default Re: Commercial Breeders

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie View Post
    The conclusion of this report that "discus is a good candidate for aquaculture" is remarkable given the complete absence of any market analysis.

    Willie
    A prime example of publish or perish?
    AquaticSuppliers.com Freeze Dried BlackWorms and other foods your Discus will Love!!!


    >>>>>I am a science guy.. show me the science minus the BS

    Al Sabetta
    Simplydiscus LLC Owner
    Aquaticsuppliers.com


    I take Pics.. click here for my Flickr images

  15. #60
    Moderator Team LizStreithorst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Commercial Breeders

    lol
    Mama Bear

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