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Thread: Commercial Breeders

  1. #1
    Registered Member Lido's Avatar
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    Default Commercial Breeders

    I have always wondered why there are no commercial breeders of ultra high quality discus in the US. I know they are mostly in Malaysia, Vietnam, China and a few other countries like Germany. I was just wondering why the US doesn't have a commercial breeding operation. I mean with the cost of the fish I would have to assume that the business is viable. I know we commercially farm corals and certain types of fish.

    I am not talking about your average home breeder, I mean commercial large scale.

    I thought I would open a round table discussion on this.
    Last edited by Lido; 02-08-2017 at 12:31 PM.
    Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! - Hunter S Thompson

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    Registered Member rickztahone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Commercial Breeders

    Quote Originally Posted by LidoVentura View Post
    I have always wondered why there are no commercial breeders of ultra high quality discus in the US. I know they are mostly in Malaysia, Vietnam, China and a few other countries like Germany. I was just wondering why the US doesn't have a commercial breeding operation. I mean with the cost of the fish I would have to assume that the business is viable. I know we commercially farm corals and certain types of fish.

    I am not talking about your average home breeder, I mean commercial large scale.

    I thought I would open a round table discussion on this.
    The bottom line is that a breeding facility here in the US on the scale of a Malaysian one would not be cost effective. The truth of the matter is that it is much easier and cheaper for people outside of the US to have a farm than it is for us. I know of many oversees breeders that can get water from their tap and it is perfect for breeding discus! That is a luxury we do not have here for sure.

    I will mention an exception, and that is Eric, one of our sponsors. He is known for breeding discus and had quite a large operation going on, but unfortunately, he had a disaster strike in his fish room and is in the process of rebuilding.

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    Registered Member Leland F.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Commercial Breeders

    Temperature regulation, cost of electricity, cost of employees and food, water, and sewer are all major problems. Rainwater collection tanks and ponds help provide water in asian countries, as well as filtered tap water. Most have no filtration, and simply change the water twice a day. The climate keeps the fish warm, with some requiring heaters or A/C during certain times of the year, but minimally. Employees don't have to have a large hourly pay, or benefits, and the cost of electricity is much lower. Live foods are much more available at very cheap prices as well. Tough to compete with that.

    -Leland

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    Registered Member Lido's Avatar
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    Default Re: Commercial Breeders

    Sure I can understand the costs are cheaper in other countries. I mean that is the standard argument for globalization in general. I am not saying "it isn't more profitable" to do it outside of the US. I suppose the challenges are so great that nobody wants to take the risk associated with it. I can totally understand. It seems that is why things have stayed small scale, strictly home breeders and hobbyists.
    Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! - Hunter S Thompson

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    Registered Member LoGeek's Avatar
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    Default Re: Commercial Breeders

    Stendker in Germany is proof that you can financially sustain a breeding facility long term in a country much like the US. I highly doubt that electricity and water prices are higher in the US than in Germany.

    But I know nothing about their history. Maybe they made a name for themselves before large imports from Asia began?

    There are some other breeding facilities in Europe as well in countries as expensive as the US, but I know of noone as large as Stendker.

  6. #6
    Registered Member Lido's Avatar
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    Default Re: Commercial Breeders

    Lo

    This is basically what I am getting at. I am not trying to say that cheap labor, free water etc isn't a more economical model. I am just trying to get at that I would assume it is economically plausible. If it was totally unreasonable there wouldn't be people commercially farming corals or other higher dollar livestock. Maybe with the sensitivity of discus the risks outweigh the potential rewards. Or maybe the domestication of discus and viability is so new that nobody has made the leap?

    Basically every LFS I have talked with would prefer to get the discus from a local source. There would be peace of mind knowing it is adjusted to local tap and water conditions.
    Last edited by Lido; 02-08-2017 at 03:36 PM.
    Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! - Hunter S Thompson

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    Registered Member warblad79's Avatar
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    Default Re: Commercial Breeders

    Quote Originally Posted by LidoVentura View Post
    Sure I can understand the costs are cheaper in other countries. I mean that is the standard argument for globalization in general. I am not saying "it isn't more profitable" to do it outside of the US. I suppose the challenges are so great that nobody wants to take the risk associated with it. I can totally understand. It seems that is why things have stayed small scale, strictly home breeders and hobbyists.
    Trust me it's not cheap and I've been breeding for a while now. The profit is zero, the money I make from breeding only cover all the expenses and effort I put to it. It's only the fun of it that's why I still continue

  8. #8
    Registered Member Lido's Avatar
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    Default Re: Commercial Breeders

    Quote Originally Posted by warblad79 View Post
    Trust me it's not cheap and I've been breeding for a while now. The profit is zero, the money I make from breeding only cover all the expenses and effort I put to it. It's only the fun of it that's why I still continue

    I totally get that as a hobbyist it isn't a money making operation. I have bred plenty of fish. But the more breeding stick you have, the moe those small "profits for your time" turn into larger profits. It takes no longer to feed 10 tanks with 10 fish or 10 tanks with 100 fish or 1000 fish. I have no doubt in my mind that it is extremely difficult, time consuming etc. I guess I am just trying to figure out at what point it could become viable enough to do it as a full time home based business.

    I have been building reef systems for some time now as a side business and it makes some money, but I really want to take my hobby to the next level.

    how many breeding pair would it take to make 60k a year as I would be willing to take a pay cut to work from home. I obviously would have to diversify and not do only discus.

    I have a really good friend who has turned fragging corals and breeding fancy clownfish into a very lucrative business. I am trying to see if breeding Cichlids could do the same for me.

    I don't want to import/export fish. I just want to create a business I can run from home and spend more time with with my family.
    Last edited by Lido; 02-08-2017 at 04:10 PM.
    Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! - Hunter S Thompson

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    Registered Member Lido's Avatar
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    Default Re: Commercial Breeders

    I think I just saw this "Eric" you speak of. This is exactly what I am talking about. I knew it was possible.
    Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! - Hunter S Thompson

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    Registered Member bluelagoon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Commercial Breeders

    I googled USA discus farm and came up with this.Not sure of the quality.http://www.discushatchery.com/

  11. #11
    Registered Member warblad79's Avatar
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    Default Re: Commercial Breeders

    Quote Originally Posted by LidoVentura View Post
    I think I just saw this "Eric" you speak of. This is exactly what I am talking about. I knew it was possible.
    It's possible but can't do that here in California due to drought and because you need endless supply of water if you're breeding and raising discus. Also everything here in California are expensive, so you might have to move somewhere else cheaper with endless supply of water. That's probably the reason why we don't have farm here. also you will have lots of competition since we have so many importer now from every well known breeder.

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    Default Re: Commercial Breeders

    Quote Originally Posted by LoGeek View Post
    Stendker in Germany is proof that you can financially sustain a breeding facility long term in a country much like the US. I highly doubt that electricity and water prices are higher in the US than in Germany.
    There is much more Solar panel use in Europe especially in Germany from my understanding. Something there is not much of in the U.S. Some areas are very high in cost for electricity I've seen as high as .20 a kilowatt then you have all the taxes and environmental fees on top also. From my prospective I tried some indoor gardening in the winter the lighting alone pushed my bill up 200.00 a month. So on a commercial scale it may be 10x as much in electricity plus food and water. It adds up quick. Tropical breeders do not need heaters or lighting as much because of the tropics and it rains much more so water also could be free.

  13. #13
    Registered Member Lido's Avatar
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    Default Re: Commercial Breeders

    Quote Originally Posted by warblad79 View Post
    It's possible but can't do that here in California due to drought and because you need endless supply of water if you're breeding and raising discus. Also everything here in California are expensive, so you might have to move somewhere else cheaper with endless supply of water. That's probably the reason why we don't have farm here. also you will have lots of competition since we have so many importer now from every well known breeder.
    Yeah, water would be the big issue. Lights are cheap with LEDs. Heating the water wouldn't be a big deal i would use Gas and heat the whole room. Only use inline heaters for maintaining internal temps. I guess in CA it's better to just grow something else that is not fish.. lol JK.

    I guess i'll put the reigns on and just keep trucking on breeding the fish i like for myself and my friends.
    Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! - Hunter S Thompson

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    Registered Member warblad79's Avatar
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    Default Re: Commercial Breeders

    Quote Originally Posted by LidoVentura View Post
    Yeah, water would be the big issue. Lights are cheap with LEDs. Heating the water wouldn't be a big deal i would use Gas and heat the whole room. Only use inline heaters for maintaining internal temps. I guess in CA it's better to just grow something else that is not fish.. lol JK.

    I guess i'll put the reigns on and just keep trucking on breeding the fish i like for myself and my friends.
    You can probably get a way with little water change like those German breeder do but you have to build a sophisticated system to achieve that. In Asia they do lots of water change because they'll don't have that kind of system so they just take advantage of the rain and well water.

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    Default Re: Commercial Breeders

    If you were to live over an aquifer, or near an Artesian well then your water price would be of no concern, so then your concerns would be ways to cut down on all your other costs, heating, lighting, feeding. I just don't know if you would need to treat or monitor your water, which I assume you would probably want to. So start looking for known places of those, and move lol! J/K, (not really but).

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