Commercial Breeders

[rickztahone]

Yeah, water would be the big issue. Lights are cheap with LEDs. Heating the water wouldn't be a big deal i would use Gas and heat the whole room. Only use inline heaters for maintaining internal temps. I guess in CA it's better to just grow something else that is not fish.. lol JK.

I guess i'll put the reigns on and just keep trucking on breeding the fish i like for myself and my friends.

This thread isn't a means of discouragement, simply showing you that this idea is not a new one. Many members have tried to make the transition from hobbyist breeder to grand scale breeder and it generally isn't as lucrative as you may imagine it to be. The issue has already been touched upon, but your main problem is importers that can bring in a huge variety of discus at a price that can undercut almost anyone in the US. Once you factor in your utilities for keeping these discus alive till selling age, you've already amassed a huge amount of debt on each discus that selling isn't really going to clear you as much as you might think from that pending debt.

The only advice I can give you is to find some form of niche, it can be anything from developing red strained discus, to any other color and focusing on these and making them your specialty. Anything that can give you the edge.

[Lido]

I have considered trying to work with some cross genetics, maybe i should just shoot for the holy grail.. breed wild Heckels!

I have been thinking of working with some of the F1's i have to "design" my own strain. Maybe i'll look a little deeper into that. It's not a bad idea. I've always been a fan of RSG crosses.

[warblad79]

I have considered trying to work with some cross genetics, maybe i should just shoot for the holy grail.. breed wild Heckels!

I have been thinking of working with some of the F1's i have to "design" my own strain. Maybe i'll look a little deeper into that. It's not a bad idea. I've always been a fan of RSG crosses.

Anything you create now is nothing new even for wild Heckels. Designing your own strain will take years to achieve it and all we can do is keep trying. But don't get discourage breeding discus is fun.

[Ryan]

Even Eric has a day job. To be successful you'd have to have a large enough operation to have customers all over the world, exporting to various countries. Discus are such a specialized fish that you'd never survive only selling domestically, IMO. You may not think feeding 10 fish versus 1000 fish is any different, but you'd be wrong about that. I run just 15 tanks and import about ~150 fish at a time and between water changes, tank wipe-downs, feedings, answering questions for customers, taking pictures and video, packaging and shipping fish, etc. it is enough to be a full-time job. Now imagine that multiplied by 10 or more.

Aside from having the right climate and water, there is also a passion for breeding and playing with genetics among the Asian breeders. That's not to say that it hasn't happened here. Jack Wattley is a great example of someone who was very successful at it. The tropical fish hobby has always been somewhat more of a lifestyle in Asia. It's not the same here in the States. The years you'd need to tweak your own strains and build it into a global business would be a lot of energy and dedication.

[Lido]

I totally agree with you for the most part Ryan. And I was saying feeding 10 tanks is no different. The amount of fish in the tank is subjective. Just because I am not Asian does not mean I do not have a passion for fish. I have a day job as well. I am just trying to see if anyone on here had any insight to the industry and/or potential problems they foresee. I didn't need a speech on why I am not passionate enough towards fish or why I am not motivated as much as an Asian breeder. But hey thanks for the advice anyhow. We can learn something from everyone.

[Lido]

Anything you create now is nothing new even for wild Heckels. Designing your own strain will take years to achieve it and all we can do is keep trying. But don't get discourage breeding discus is fun.

The "design" was there because I realize there is more to it than taking two discus and making them dance. There are generations of cross breeding, back breeding and isolating genitics. I have a degree in fisheries biology, I'm not a slouch.

[Leland F.]

I was under the impression Stendker had taken over Bern Degen's or Schmitt-Fock's hatchery in the past. Don't know if that's true or not.

-Leland

[CliffsDiscus]

I googled USA discus farm and came up with this.Not sure of the quality.http://www.discushatchery.com/

I visited Peter's Discus back in the 90's and noticed that there were many 2 inch size and very few smaller Discus. Does this mean that he was importing back then already?

Cliff

[CliffsDiscus]

I was under the impression Stendker had taken over Bern Degen's or Schmitt-Fock's hatchery in the past. Don't know if that's true or not.

-Leland

Degan was a writer and Discus broker. Schmitt-Fock's fish were sold by Aquarium Rio in Germany.

Cliff

[Woodduck]

It is said, "The only way to become a millionaire breeding Discus is to start off as a billionaire".

[Lido]

It is said, "The only way to become a millionaire breeding Discus is to start off as a billionaire".

Lol perfect!

[John_Nicholson]

The reason you can't understand it is you know nothing of the fish business. LFS want the cheapest fish possible regardless of what they tell you. The cost of running a large scale operation here is just worth the effort. You could make way more money elsewhere. Why would any reasonable person tie up lots of capital in a high risk low return industry? There is an old saying that is still true it goes like this.......How do you make a small fortune in the fish business? Start with a large fortune......I have been breeding discus for 20+ years. There were times I produced and sold as many as 6000 in a year. My water cost and heating cost are both low here in Texas. I promise you that you cannot make a living from it. In fact on the money side I did much better on angels than I did on discus.

-john

[John_Nicholson]

Oh and no one and I repeat no one is making a living breeding discus in this country. The ones that claim too are importing discus and selling them as their own.

-john

[Hart24601]

This is an interesting thread as I have wondered the exact same thing about lack of large commercial breeding in the USA when it is possible in Germany and one would expect the expenses to not be drastically different but John's comments are really interesting selling 6k fish a year. Sounds like they (Stendker) have built up such a large market worldwide they can sustain producing (and selling) gigantic numbers of fish to make a profit. For a new breeder it sounds like the market isn't there with Germans and Asians already in the market place. That will not allow the scale up and market recognition of the beginning breeder to sell tens of thousands of fish which is apparently required to sustain a discus breeding operation when as John said it's such a high risk low reward industry - seems it would hard to get capital for that investment.

[LoGeek]

There is much more Solar panel use in Europe especially in Germany from my understanding. Something there is not much of in the U.S. Some areas are very high in cost for electricity I've seen as high as .20 a kilowatt then you have all the taxes and environmental fees on top also. From my prospective I tried some indoor gardening in the winter the lighting alone pushed my bill up 200.00 a month. So on a commercial scale it may be 10x as much in electricity plus food and water. It adds up quick. Tropical breeders do not need heaters or lighting as much because of the tropics and it rains much more so water also could be free.

Trust me, it is not cheaper running a facility in Germany!

BUT, of course there's the fact that we are very driven and efficient when it comes to business in Europe

No, I really do agree with those being sceptical. It's probably a very high initial investment with uncertain return. Just wanted to point out that for whatever reason Stendker has managed to build a successful business around their discus.