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Thread: Spawning in tap water

  1. #1
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    Default Spawning in tap water

    My discus pairs like to spawn in tap water. I was planning to replace 75% tap with RO - it seems to get best hatch - but both pairs beat me to it and spawned in tap water again tonight.
    Now, when they spawn in tap water, I never get wigglers, all eggs turn white.
    Is it too late to replace some of the tap water with RO ?

  2. #2
    Registered Member Keith Perkins's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spawning in tap water

    It's worth a try. Most would tell you it's too late, but there is at least one pretty successful breeder around here that bucks that trend.

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    Registered Member rickmiles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spawning in tap water

    I have done it many times. Say for example in your community tank your Discus spawn and the eggs never hatch (or get eaten), never hatch because the water is to hard.

    You ask yourself, do I have a breeding pair? male and female? should I put them in there own tank now?

    What I do is take the eggs out and put them in a container with ro or distilled water with a few drops of mb and an air stone etc etc the eggs will hatch or most will and then you will know if it's a proven pair.

    The last time I did this, last week. I closed my Discus room about 5:PM, the next morning when I opened the Discus section about 10:AM, I noticed a pair laid eggs in the community tank. I did what I said above and they hatched and then I put the pair in there own tank with ro water. I have even done what you asked about, when they lay eggs in the hard tap water, I just do a water change of about 70% ro, TDS about 25 to 75tds and the eggs hatch.

    I know what all the books say and most discus people on this forum say about this subject. I have been breeding Discus since the 70"s and I ignore all the nay sayers and do what I have to do because I know it works.

    Rick Mileski Sr.

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    Default Re: Spawning in tap water

    Thank you for detailed answer! I will do it, worth the try.
    Interestingly though, if I get them to hatch, it would mean that it's not fertilization of eggs affected by tap water, it's eggs membrane .

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    Silver Member Willie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spawning in tap water

    Its too late to change to R/O after they spawn. If you do a water change with R/O when they start to clean the spawning surface, then the spawn will be fine. The egg membrane seals itself when Ca ions are high, since it's similar to the physiological change after fertilization.

    Good luck, Willie
    At my age, everything is irritating.

  6. #6
    Registered Member Keith Perkins's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spawning in tap water

    Quote Originally Posted by Albanets View Post
    Thank you for detailed answer! I will do it, worth the try.
    Interestingly though, if I get them to hatch, it would mean that it's not fertilization of eggs affected by tap water, it's eggs membrane .
    Sounds about right. Let us know what happens, I'm curious.

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    Registered Member bluelagoon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spawning in tap water

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie View Post
    Its too late to change to R/O after they spawn. If you do a water change with R/O when they start to clean the spawning surface, then the spawn will be fine. The egg membrane seals itself when Ca ions are high, since it's similar to the physiological change after fertilization.

    Good luck, Willie
    This is my understanding of the process also.

  8. #8
    Registered Member rickmiles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spawning in tap water

    Its too late to change to R/O after they spawn. If you do a water change with R/O when they start to clean the spawning surface, then the spawn will be fine. The egg membrane seals itself when Ca ions are high, since it's similar to the physiological change after fertilization.
    Good luck, Willie
    You must of read the books, turn the books upside down and open your closed mind and try it. You just might learn something new.
    bluelagoon wrote
    This is my understanding of the process also.
    Well its like I said in my post about all the nay sayers " I know what all the books say and most discus people on this forum say about this subject." Read my post again because you don't get it.

    I'd be happy to discuss this on the phone in detail call me at 925-978-0880 I'm there 11:AM to 5:PM or you can email me at rick@fintastikantioch.com

    Or you can come on down and I'll show you how I do it and other Discus stuff you may not know about, coffee is free, but bring your own surger.

    Rick Mileski Sr.
    Last edited by rickmiles; 02-10-2017 at 01:32 PM.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Spawning in tap water

    I think that our water composition depends on location, maybe in some areas tap water Ca2+ is above threshold for successful fertilization, while in others its below. Unless we measure Ca concentration directly, we wouldn't know.
    Hans sells confirmed pairs that got to wigglers in his tap water. I heard him say you can IMPROVE hatching rates by RO.
    Tap water definitely affects hatch rates, since in MY tap water all eggs turn white in 48 hrs, while in 75% RO + MB they hatch.

    I suspect another possibility - eggs may be fertilised in tap water, but oxygen and waste transport may be affected , thus choking embrios later.
    So. My confirmed pair of BDs spawned in tap water last night. Previous two spawns in tap water resulted in all white eggs.
    I have replaced 75% of tap water with RO water 12 hrs later (this morning). I have added methylene blue to prevent fungus, and added second air stone right next to the eggs to increase oxygen and water flow. Just like angelfish breeders do when they artificially hatch eggs.
    IF eggs hatch, this would mean that failure to hatch in my tap water was due to membrane changes that affected embrios by reducing oxygen/waste transport, but eggs were fertilized nonetheless.
    Last edited by Albanets; 02-10-2017 at 02:48 PM.

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    Default Re: Spawning in tap water


  11. #11
    Registered Member rickmiles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spawning in tap water

    Albanese

    It looks good, let us know if some hatch.

    My Discus eggs will not hatch in my tap water I wish they did, it's to hard, I have to use R.O. water.

    I also breed Discus artificially when I need too, its a pain in the you know what. I started off as a Angelfish breeder and sold fry to the lfs's.

    I started breeding Discus when I read a article written by my friend Jack about artificially breeding Discus. I eventually was able to buy 4 wild Heckels and I was able to breed them after a good many months using trial and error. In those days there were no such thing as the Internet or the web.

    Rick Miles Sr

  12. #12
    Registered Member bluelagoon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spawning in tap water

    It would depend on the tap water.I've seen discus hatched and raised in moderately hard water with a PH of about 8.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Spawning in tap water

    Quote Originally Posted by rickmiles View Post
    I have done it many times. Say for example in your community tank your Discus spawn and the eggs never hatch (or get eaten), never hatch because the water is to hard.

    You ask yourself, do I have a breeding pair? male and female? should I put them in there own tank now?

    What I do is take the eggs out and put them in a container with ro or distilled water with a few drops of mb and an air stone etc etc the eggs will hatch or most will and then you will know if it's a proven pair.

    The last time I did this, last week. I closed my Discus room about 5:PM, the next morning when I opened the Discus section about 10:AM, I noticed a pair laid eggs in the community tank. I did what I said above and they hatched and then I put the pair in there own tank with ro water. I have even done what you asked about, when they lay eggs in the hard tap water, I just do a water change of about 70% ro, TDS about 25 to 75tds and the eggs hatch.

    I know what all the books say and most discus people on this forum say about this subject. I have been breeding Discus since the 70"s and I ignore all the nay sayers and do what I have to do because I know it works.

    Rick Mileski Sr.
    Very interesting what do you mean you add mb to the RO water what is mb?

  14. #14
    Registered Member Keith Perkins's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spawning in tap water

    mb = methane blue

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Spawning in tap water

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Perkins View Post
    mb = methane blue
    Oh ok thank you.

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