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Thread: Simple Sump Setup Advice

  1. #1
    Registered Member Clawhammer's Avatar
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    Default Simple Sump Setup Advice

    So, I ordered an overflow box and will be creating my first sump setup, so I am all ears for any advice or experiences!

    I plan on using my two canister filters to return the water from the sump to my 120. I plan on getting a 29 gallon as the sump. The purpose is mainly cosmetic, to get all equipment out of the tank, but I am up for som DIY to get some extra filtration out of the effort.

    I am thinking about keeping it simple and just using one sheet of 2" poret foam, but I am open to all guidance or critiques.

    One question.. If I move my airstones to the sump, will that be enough aeration?

    Thanks in advance!

  2. #2
    Registered Member Clawhammer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Simple Sump Setup Advice

    Has anyone ever tried to use a canister as a sump return? I am now thinking there may be issues with the canister pulling water from the sump below the tank and then having to lift the water back up to the tank. I was thinking of attaching small pumps to the intakes of the canisters (option #1). Otherwise, maybe just running the canisters to pull and return water from the sump, and getting a separate pump to return the water to the tank (option 2). I think option 2 would sacrifice some filtration, but I be happy to get some thoughts on this.

  3. #3
    Registered Member Clawhammer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Simple Sump Setup Advice

    Option #3, remove the impellers from my canisters and use a return pump to push water through the canisters (in line) and then back to the tank.

    I get that probably no one has first hand experience here, but any thoughts are welcome!

  4. #4
    Registered Member Ryan925's Avatar
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    Default Re: Simple Sump Setup Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Clawhammer View Post
    Option #3, remove the impellers from my canisters and use a return pump to push water through the canisters (in line) and then back to the tank.

    I get that probably no one has first hand experience here, but any thoughts are welcome!
    Question Eric ? Why the canisters ? Are you wanting to keep them for media ?

    I believe a canister needs to be gravity fed so pulling out of the sump may not work. If you are going to add a pump to canister intake why not just remove canisters and get yourself a decent dc return pump ? I was in process of building a 40g sump but currently have it on hold. I was going to use probably a jebao dct 4000 or probably a 6000

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    Default Re: Simple Sump Setup Advice

    I am sort of confused as to why you are so adamant on using the canisters?

    A proper sump design doesn't really require this. If you have a 29 gallon tank, all you need is to let the water flow from the aquarium, to the sump, through the chambers and you can get a cheap return pump on amazon to send the water right back... No canister's needed. I think you are making things way more complicated then they need to be by adding in the canister's. Someone can correct me if I am wrong but I see no need.

  6. #6
    Registered Member Clawhammer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Simple Sump Setup Advice

    Thanks guys, I guess I should have explained that I want to use the canisters because one of them is brand new and I have nothing else to use it for and the other was expensive. I am hoping to find a way to incorporate the canisters for most of the filtration, as the sump is mostly to add more water to the system and to hide equipment. It is starting to look like the project is a no go (or maybe option #3).

  7. #7
    Registered Member Ryan925's Avatar
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    Default Re: Simple Sump Setup Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Clawhammer View Post
    Thanks guys, I guess I should have explained that I want to use the canisters because one of them is brand new and I have nothing else to use it for and the other was expensive. I am hoping to find a way to incorporate the canisters for most of the filtration, as the sump is mostly to add more water to the system and to hide equipment. It is starting to look like the project is a no go (or maybe option #3).
    If you really want to use those canisters I would say maybe pack them with media, leave them unplugged and get yourself a dc pump and plumb the return to the intake side of the canister. Using a DC pump will allow you to adjust the flow to make up for the restriction of running through the canisters. I don't see why that would be any different than running a return pump through a bunch of components like skimmers, reactors etc...

  8. #8
    Registered Member Clawhammer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Simple Sump Setup Advice

    I have decided to use a Jebao dct400 for each filter considering the head height.

    Any advice on the type of Poret foam (width and PPI)?

    Also, do those that use a sump put their aeration in the sump instead of the tank?

    Thanks!

  9. #9
    Registered Member Ryan925's Avatar
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    Default Re: Simple Sump Setup Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Clawhammer View Post
    I have decided to use a Jebao dct400 for each filter considering the head height.

    Any advice on the type of Poret foam (width and PPI)?

    Also, do those that use a sump put their aeration in the sump instead of the tank?

    Thanks!
    Sounds like a good plan Eric. I have been told by others that any higher ppi than 20 would clog really quickly. With that said I did order 1" thickness 10,20,30 ppi. I plan on stacking the 10/20 in the drip tray of the wet/dry section of my sump. Not sure what I will do with the 30. Was thinking somewhere towards the end of the sump , before the pump just to polish water. Somewhere easy to remove.

    As far as aeration goes I don't know that you need it. I believe the water going down overflow and over baffles is enough for gas exchange ? Maybe maybe not?

  10. #10
    Registered Member Clawhammer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Simple Sump Setup Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan925 View Post
    Sounds like a good plan Eric. I have been told by others that any higher ppi than 20 would clog really quickly. With that said I did order 1" thickness 10,20,30 ppi. I plan on stacking the 10/20 in the drip tray of the wet/dry section of my sump. Not sure what I will do with the 30. Was thinking somewhere towards the end of the sump , before the pump just to polish water. Somewhere easy to remove.

    As far as aeration goes I don't know that you need it. I believe the water going down overflow and over baffles is enough for gas exchange ? Maybe maybe not?
    Thanks Ryan, I went with 1" of 10ppi and 1" of 20ppi. You are probably right about the aeration, it would be nice to remove the airstones completely to reduce noise.

  11. #11
    Registered Member Ryan925's Avatar
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    Default Re: Simple Sump Setup Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Clawhammer View Post
    Thanks Ryan, I went with 1" of 10ppi and 1" of 20ppi. You are probably right about the aeration, it would be nice to remove the airstones completely to reduce noise.
    That's exactly my plan. I have the same reason for you for the sump. I want all the crap out of my tank while also having far more than enough filtration.

    I'm making my sump far more complicated than it need be but I believe my ideas are sound. Unfortunately it's on hold for some other things at the moment.

    I am doing a wet/dry section first so there will be lots of gas exchange through the trickle of the bio balls. I think I am going to have aeration in the sump but only because I am going to have fluidized K1. Will be nice to not have heaters,intakes and airstones in tank

    I'll be interested to see how yours comes out. I'd also be interested if you could run one pump and canister super slow and provide an environment for some nitrate removing bacteria
    Last edited by Ryan925; 02-13-2017 at 07:08 PM.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Simple Sump Setup Advice

    I run 2" of 10ppi then 2" of 20ppi then 2" of 30ppi, probably over kill and probably enough to house most of the BB my tank needs. It then runs through a 13"x22"x16" fluidized K1 media section.

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    Default Re: Simple Sump Setup Advice

    Would have been far easier to use the canisters connected to the sump and use a separate return pump to the main display, much easier to balance the flow this way.
    Or sell the canisters, buy more discus and use the sump properly.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Simple Sump Setup Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by GregCambridge View Post
    Would have been far easier to use the canisters connected to the sump and use a separate return pump to the main display, much easier to balance the flow this way.
    Or sell the canisters, buy more discus and use the sump properly.
    Is there any advantage to use both the canister and sump? I am seeing more things to clean only.

  15. #15
    Registered Member JBurgo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Simple Sump Setup Advice

    Hi Eric,

    I don't think you'll be able to successfully run the canisters `into your sump and then back to your tank`, because I can't think of a way to balance the flow into the sump with the Return to the tank. In other words I think you would overflow the sump (or run it dry).

    Perhaps you could use them `as your Sump Return pump`, with a weir in your tank (or overflow box). Be careful though because I think they would be running on 0 head pressure under normal conditions, whereas you would be adding head pressure according to the height of your tank with this method (they would be missing the syphon down, which normally would equal the push up). They may work, but possibly not as fast.. you could check that with a physical test. But what happens in a power outage? They may back syphon into your sump. This could also cause your canister to take on air, and possibly run your impeller dry if the power came back on. You would have to include a backflow check valve. This all may work, but I'd do a physical test with your equipment to see what flow I was getting as a starting point.

    Alternatively, if that didn't work out, you could add a sump and run the canisters in a loop through the sump, after mechanical filtration, so that you can pack them with bio media. The up shot would be that you wouldn't need to change out the mechanical filtration in them as frequently (because the majority of mechanical filtration would be done at the entry to the sump). They could sill have mechanical filtration to polish the water a bit more for extra clean water, but they wouldn't get as dirty. The other option is to run them as usual and just add the sump as an addition.

    The advantage that you would be getting is that your sump could be `relatively small and empty` except for mechanical filtration (which is good to have there because it's easier to clean than a canister), and good to hide heaters in. And you wouldn't have to open your canisters near as much for maintenance. Canisters as a Return pump may be a reasonably quiet way to return water to the display? Let us know how you get on.
    Last edited by JBurgo; 02-17-2017 at 03:46 AM.

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