Simple Sump Setup Advice

[Clawhammer]

Anthony, you may be right about more to clean we'll see, but I am going to put the canisters at the end of the sump. The water will go through a filter sock and two sheets of Poret foam before reaching the canisters, so I am hopeful I will be able to clean my canisters every two weeks compared to weekly now. I also like the flexibility of the canister trays for different media, using them allows me to create a very simple sump without a bunch of baffles.

Jason, thanks for the feedback, it is helpful to talk through this. I think I have a solid plan now, and am actually about to head to the hardware store to buy the last bits of plumbing (still waiting on Poret as well).

I purchased two Jebao DCT4000 pumps, one for each canister. I will remove the impellers in the canisters, they will not be plugged in. The pumps are DC (thanks Ryan!) and I will be able to adjust the flow of each pump if there are issues with the overflow (eshopps pf-800). I will place the outflows, a spray bar and a regular outflow at the waterline in the tank so the siphon will break in a power loss, preventing backflow into the sump. This is important to maintain the siphon in the overflow box (so I read).

I plan to have this up and running by Saturday, so I will follow up with pictures and learnings.

[JBurgo]

You could still get away with one pump if you split the line with a T and put an adjustable valve in one side. Have you tested the ability of your canisters to do the job without buying pumps?

[Clawhammer]

I did quite a bit of reading and found out that using canisters as a return pump has been tried many times without great results. They just don't have the ability to lift much water without severely restricting flow. I like the ability to throttle the power of these D.C. Pumps in order match the overflows max flow.

[JBurgo]

Be careful though because I think they would be running on 0 head pressure under normal conditions, whereas you would be adding head pressure according to the height of your tank with this method (they would be missing the syphon down, which normally would equal the push up). They may work, but possibly not as fast.. you could check that with a physical test.

I thought that would be the case, because they're in a sealed loop they don't have to be as powerful (saves electricity and noise). I thought it might depend on if you have really high capacity canisters. Because you have 2, running them in series might give you a bit more grunt though. My advice is to do a physical test.

I don't see a reason why you couldn't do a closed loop into your sump though. It doesn't matter if your canister is taller than the sump, as long as both inlet and outlet are submersed in the sump continually. There would be no problem if any individual component failed either.

I reckon this would be your best option. It would mean 1 return pump to the Display with adjustable flow there. And you could adjust the flow to each `Bio Canister` according to what you want there too, which would probably be slower than the flow you want to generate in the Display.

[Clawhammer]

Well that was a lot of work! There are always things you don't plan for , like your sump not fitting through the doors of the cabinet Luckily, after draining the 120, I was able to pull it out and put the sump in through the back. After that it was pretty smooth sailing.

I have to say, these pumps are incredible. I have one at 80% and the other at 20% (driving a UV, so slower flow) and the overflow is barely keeping up. Any advice on how to max out flow on an overflow will be welcome. Either way, I believe I have more overall flow now than when I just had the canisters.

I figured there would be some noise that I would address tomorrow, but it is pretty quiet. Any advice for quieting the overflow will be welcome. I ran an airline into the stockpipe, which does seem to help.

Its quite a snug fit between the sump, two canisters, and a large UV. Let me know what you think!

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[JBurgo]

To quiet the overflow you could use a syphon. This would also increase the down flow. You could even use a tube with a canister u-bend hooked onto the side of your tank. You can find some drawings and pictures of my syphon here: http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...t=#post1252777 It's the equivalent of a Herbie method, and it would really quiet your overflow box down. Essentially you could do what I do without a weir. The weir is a safety feature, so you would really want to make sure your syphon starts high and that it can't outperform your overflow box if it fails.. Maybe you could put 2x overflow boxes on for safety if your syphon can beat the overflow box (you would be passing very little water down the overflow box/s, but if the syphon went, they would need to be your backup, or you will be cleaning up a mess).

Just an observation, you need to centralise and raise the down pipe in the filter sock or it will clog one spot like it's already beginning to do.

Looks like nice easy access to the important bits, and the tank looks uncluttered.

EDIT: Also, you need to do a power fail test to make sure your sump doesn't overflow and mark a maximum fill line on the sump, it looks like a lot of water is going to come out of the top of the tank at the moment. If you need to you can raise the height of the output sprinkler bar.

[Clawhammer]

Appreciate the ideas, I am sure I will be fine tuning things for a couple weeks.

I see what you mean about the outlet pipe. I am going to go take a few inches off the bottom now.

[JBurgo]

Just don't raise it above the water line in your sump so it doesn't splash.

[Ryan925]

Which eshopps did you get again?
Are you able to exchange it? I was planning an eshopps but then decided I am going to go with a cpr. Also I had decided to get a dual outlet one that can handle double the flow that I want and basically modify it to be a herbie style with one of the drains being an emergency drain.

You can definitely raise the pipe in your overflow and create a full siphon. That will cut back on the waterfall noise into the overflow box.

[JBurgo]

I see what you mean Ryan, this would work well:
If you bought one that only has one hole, maybe you could drill another and add a bulk head (higher up coming out the side). My thought is that there's a lot riding on that syphon in the overflow box, but I suppose that's the case anyway here.
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[Clawhammer]

Hi Ryan, what are the advantages to a cpr? I went the the eshopps because of the slim design, but I could potentially trade up to a cs102

[Clawhammer]

Ryan, also, isn't the cpr riskier? The thing I like most about the eshopps is that as long as there is water in the front and back of the overflow during a shutoff, the u-tube will not lose a siphon. Doesn't a cpr rely on someone to restart the overflow after a powerloss?

I am going to experiment with the standpipe a little today as that seems to be the bottleneck. When I remove the standpipe, water goes rushing down the drain, so the run down into the sump isn't restricting the flow. The catch 22 is whatever I do that seems to muffle the gargle, slows the flow.

I spent about 6 hours on the tank yesterday, suffice to say I wore out my welcome with the discus pretty quick. Its frustrating because after all that hard work, you want to see them swimming around enjoying themselves... but that is the nature of discus!

[Neptune]

A lot after the fact but, if you wanted a simple setup, drill your tank and plumb directly into the sump.
Simple, no overflow boxes to mess up, cheap, fully customizable.

You drill, plumb and drop a submersible return pump in and good to go.

[Ryan925]

Ryan, also, isn't the cpr riskier? The thing I like most about the eshopps is that as long as there is water in the front and back of the overflow during a shutoff, the u-tube will not lose a siphon. Doesn't a cpr rely on someone to restart the overflow after a powerloss?

I am going to experiment with the standpipe a little today as that seems to be the bottleneck. When I remove the standpipe, water goes rushing down the drain, so the run down into the sump isn't restricting the flow. The catch 22 is whatever I do that seems to muffle the gargle, slows the flow.

I spent about 6 hours on the tank yesterday, suffice to say I wore out my welcome with the discus pretty quick. Its frustrating because after all that hard work, you want to see them swimming around enjoying themselves... but that is the nature of discus!

Sounds like that maybe by raising the pipe and creating a full siphon it may solve your problem.

As far as the CPR goes from what I read it uses that auto lifter pump as an added fail-safe to prevent siphon loss. I just feared for some odd reason if that thing loses siphon then disaster....

If you can upgrade, even to a larger eshopps, it could be beneficial. My plan is to run one with two outlets and basically use it like a herbie. That would give a little more peace of mind to have an emergency drain for me.

But it does sound like your flow is fine that it's more just the noise. I think that you will remedy by playing with the height of the standpipe. Maybe even put a couple 90s on it

[Clawhammer]

Thanks Ryan. My current eshopps has only one u tube, so I am going to try adding another, in addition to raising the standpipe. Knowing myself though, ill be upgrading to a larger eshopps at some point in the near future. It would be great to have the option of fully firing up these great return pumps.