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Thread: Signs of intelligence?

  1. #31
    Registered Member bluelagoon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Signs of intelligence?

    Yes,fish are intelligent.They even travel in schools.haha!

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Signs of intelligence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Second Hand Pat View Post
    Jenene, concerning instinct many people call horses stupid when they are riding along and suddenly the horse turns and bolts dumping the rider. People forget that horses are a prey animal and view the world totally different. Discus are a prey animal too and that sudden dash is caused by a shadow, a sudden light or whatever.
    Pat
    That's right. A horse that seems totally in command of its actions and surroundings can get seriously spooked and freak out at a little leaf that blows across the trail.

  3. #33
    Silver Member Jenene's Avatar
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    Default Re: Signs of intelligence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Filip View Post
    Interesting and quite brainstorming thread Jenene .
    I will just quote Douglas Adams here without adding anything else :

    "For instance, on the planet Earth, man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons."

    Douglas Adams,
    The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
    Love that Filip- read it to my co-workers on my lunch in the teacher's lounge. Thank you
    "You can't trust water: Even a straight stick turns crooked in it." -W.C.Fields

  4. #34
    Homesteader Lido's Avatar
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    Default Re: Signs of intelligence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Filip View Post
    Interesting and quite brainstorming thread Jenene .
    I will just quote Douglas Adams here without adding anything else :

    "For instance, on the planet Earth, man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons."

    Douglas Adams,
    The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
    Goodbye and thanks for the fish.
    Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! - Hunter S Thompson

  5. #35
    Moderator Team Filip's Avatar
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    Default Re: Signs of intelligence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lido View Post
    Goodbye and thanks for the fish.
    Haha .
    Unfortinarelly Casey , i think that we are not very far from that day ,when the dolphins will get to thank us for all our fish and check out of here .

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Signs of intelligence?

    This question has been running through my head for a while, when you approach the tank, for feeding or other purposes and the fish come to front of tank and "look at you" with pectoral fins flapping 10 to the dozen does that mean they are "smiling or pleased to see you?". Just a thought..i'll get my coat

  7. #37
    Silver Member Jenene's Avatar
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    Default Re: Signs of intelligence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Filip View Post
    Haha .
    Unfortinarelly Casey , i think that we are not very far from that day ,when the dolphins will get to thank us for all our fish and check out of here .
    Quote Originally Posted by Discus_Diva View Post
    This question has been running through my head for a while, when you approach the tank, for feeding or other purposes and the fish come to front of tank and "look at you" with pectoral fins flapping 10 to the dozen does that mean they are "smiling or pleased to see you?". Just a thought..i'll get my coat
    Some say this is "conditioning"- maybe, but it does not explain how they discern the difference between individuals since many only perform for their caretakers. That would require a degree of intelligence IMO especially since we can change our appearance by changing clothes, hair, glases...just say'n.
    Last edited by Jenene; 02-17-2017 at 08:20 AM.

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Signs of intelligence?

    I would call it learned behavior. Quite similar in fact to what happens in our public school system. The student memorizes what the teacher wants and then performs on a test. Depending on the results on the test, the student is rewarded with a grade. Is this how one acquires intelligence, or is public education just conditioning?
    Last edited by afriend; 02-17-2017 at 11:59 AM.

  9. #39
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    Default Re: Signs of intelligence?

    Looks like some of you have very smart fish. Mine are dumber than rocks.
    Whenever you feel stupid, remember that there are people out there looking for Pokemon.

  10. #40
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    Default Re: Signs of intelligence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Discus_Diva View Post
    This question has been running through my head for a while, when you approach the tank, for feeding or other purposes and the fish come to front of tank and "look at you" with pectoral fins flapping 10 to the dozen does that mean they are "smiling or pleased to see you?". Just a thought..i'll get my coat
    I tend to agree. When my wife walks passed the tank the fish pay her no mind or even startle sometimes. If I am within view of the tank they are ready to eat and all at the front glass. Being able to recognize who feeds them has to be some evidence of learning even if it's on a small scale

  11. #41
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    Default Re: Signs of intelligence?

    This is really a question for the ages. What defines "intelligence." Is it simply understanding a behavior and applying it or is it the ability to critically analyze to solve complex problems.

    It is my personal belief that everything possesses some level of awareness, however the level of that awareness greatly differs from animal to animal.

    I challenge you to wonder, is it the size of the brain or the complexity of neurons that run through the brain that ultimately decide how powerful a brian is. Has the opposable thumb contributed to our success more than the fact we have a complex brain? If you gave the same to an elephant would they then be more intelligent?

    The factors in which decipher intelligence from adaptive learning are separated by such minutia I don't even think we completely understand what it means to be "aware." Every time the "animals are dumb" crowd comes up with another "it's because" it seems we find animals doing exactly that. Things like teaching young, adapting to new situations, solving complex issues, teaching others how to solve those issues.. the list goes on.

    So to make a long story short, do I think discus show some sort of brain power, sure... Are they studying us to become the dominant life form on earth, probably not.
    Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! - Hunter S Thompson

  12. #42
    Silver Member Jenene's Avatar
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    Default Re: Signs of intelligence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lido View Post
    This is really a question for the ages. What defines "intelligence." Is it simply understanding a behavior and applying it or is it the ability to critically analyze to solve complex problems.

    It is my personal belief that everything possesses some level of awareness, however the level of that awareness greatly differs from animal to animal.

    I challenge you to wonder, is it the size of the brain or the complexity of neurons that run through the brain that ultimately decide how powerful a brian is. Has the opposable thumb contributed to our success more than the fact we have a complex brain? If you gave the same to an elephant would they then be more intelligent?

    The factors in which decipher intelligence from adaptive learning are separated by such minutia I don't even think we completely understand what it means to be "aware." Every time the "animals are dumb" crowd comes up with another "it's because" it seems we find animals doing exactly that. Things like teaching young, adapting to new situations, solving complex issues, teaching others how to solve those issues.. the list goes on.

    So to make a long story short, do I think discus show some sort of brain power, sure... Are they studying us to become the dominant life form on earth, probably not.
    Well said Casey, I agree completely. It is pretty interesting how this thread has brought up healthy debate and more questions. The thread was sparked by my one Eruption Leopard that seemed to be different from the others by doing things that looked like some kind of thought process (simple as it was) was going on. No calculus or world issues but a bit above what I had seen in the others and it just caught my curiosity to see if anyone else had seen similar behavior and it kind of took off...
    "You can't trust water: Even a straight stick turns crooked in it." -W.C.Fields

  13. #43
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    Default Re: Signs of intelligence?

    I think some people are confusing consciousness with intelligence. if intelligence is the ability to solve problems, then, for sure, they are intelligent, they for example can solve problems when they are trapped, chosing the best way to go away from the "trap".

    Actually, there are a lot of scientific papers, reviews and documents demostrating that fish are actually intelligent.

    http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/abstract/...0/?reload=true

    http://link.springer.com/article/10....er-links-click

    http://link.springer.com/article/10....071-001-0116-5

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...6.ch13/summary
    Last edited by Donethur; 02-18-2017 at 06:43 PM.

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