can you skip nitrites?

[clark12]

i am putting this in the beginners section because i THINK its a beginners question. I'm doing a fish less cycle on a 29g QT . I'm turning 2ppm ammo into 0.5ppm in 24 hrs but still haven't seen even one nitrite and I'm up to 30ppm nitrates. temp is 85 and ph is 8.2. lights are out. is it possible to skip or not have seen the nitrites? i check every day. I'm 3 weeks into this cycle. i know I'm not fully cycled yet and my end goal is 4ppm but I've never done a fishless so I'm a little confused, where are my nitrites?

[Kirbs]

I'm going through the same thing. I've only seen a nitrite reading once and I've tested a lot of water in the last 30 years of fishkeeping.

[alron2]

Sounds to me like your nitrite test kit is bad. How old is it?
Ron

[clark12]

Sounds to me like your nitrite test kit is bad. How old is it?
Ron

expiration date is 8-2018 so its not out of date. maybe just bad. i have another unopened bottle thats even newer. i will try that this morning

[clark12]

guess who showed up last night! kit was good, nitrites now at 1ppm. i was going from 2+ ammo in 24 hrs to 0.5. so i jumped it to 4ppm yesterday as my goal is 4ppm cycled. so as i said nitrites are now 1ppm and nitrates are 30+ and ammo stayed at 4ppm. should i do a wc and get nitrites and nitrates back down and redose ammo? I'm using a powder form of ammo (Fritz) and its kinda hard to get exactly 3 or 4ppm. now i see this thread getting moved to water

[brewmaster15]

If you guys are seeing Nitrates, you have to have Nitrite consuming bacteria established.. Ammonia is converted by bacteria to nitrites... As the nitrites rise, populations of bacteria feed on it and convert it to nitrates. If your Nitrates are climbing..it really only comes from one place. Nitrite consuming bacteria. Theres cases where I think it can happen chemically without bacteria but from what I remember thats rare in a fishtank.

Sometimes there is a very pronounced ammonia spike followed by nitrite spike when cycling. Sometimes its more gradual and indistinct. Especially when doing alot of water changes

Guess who showed up last night! kit was good, nitrites now at 1ppm. i was going from 2+ ammo in 24 hrs to 0.5. so i jumped it to 4ppm yesterday as my goal is 4ppm cycled. so as i said nitrites are now 1ppm and nitrates are 30+ and ammo stayed at 4ppm. should i do a wc and get nitrites and nitrates back down and redose ammo? I'm using a powder form of ammo (Fritz) and its kinda hard to get exactly 3 or 4ppm. now i see this thread getting moved to water

I personally would not. You want a nitrite spike so it theres food for the bacterial population that consumes it to Grow,

al

[clark12]

If you guys are seeing Nitrates, you have to have Nitrite consuming bacteria established.. Ammonia is converted by bacteria to nitrites... As the nitrites rise, populations of bacteria feed on it and convert it to nitrates. If your Nitrates are climbing..it really only comes from one place. Nitrite consuming bacteria. Theres cases where I think it can happen chemically without bacteria but from what I remember thats rare in a fishtank.

Sometimes there is a very pronounced ammonia spike followed by nitrite spike when cycling. Sometimes its more gradual and indistinct. Especially when doing alot of water changes


I personally would not. You want a nitrite spike so it theres food for the bacterial population that consumes it to Grow,

al

thanks Al, i will let it sit and keep checking. at what point do i change water because nitrites are too high?

[brewmaster15]

If the nitrites get to 5 mgs/L I would change some water... Too high and it can affect the cycle. At least thats what I have always done.

hth,
al

[DJW]

When I have watched the cycle, it usually goes through a phase where the ammonia-consuming bacteria (AOB) are fully developed and then it takes a while for the nitrite-consuming bacteria (NOB) to catch up.

At 82 degrees the nitrite-consumers grow slower than the ammonia-consumers. So I keep adding ammonia so that the AOB are well fed, which causes the nitrite to accumulate, to pile up higher and higher until it goes off the chart, far above 5ppm.

At this point I change water until the nitrite is where I can measure it. If the nitrite is off the chart you can't tell whether it is being consumed.

There is also some evidence that when you leave a high concentration of nitrite, you are selecting for less desirable species of bacteria, which can slow the process down.

[MendoMan]

When I have watched the cycle, it usually goes through a phase where the ammonia-consuming bacteria (AOB) are fully developed and then it takes a while for the nitrite-consuming bacteria (NOB) to catch up.

At 82 degrees the nitrite-consumers grow slower than the ammonia-consumers. So I keep adding ammonia so that the AOB are well fed, which causes the nitrite to accumulate, to pile up higher and higher until it goes off the chart, far above 5ppm.

At this point I change water until the nitrite is where I can measure it. If the nitrite is off the chart you can't tell whether it is being consumed.

There is also some evidence that when you leave a high concentration of nitrite, you are selecting for less desirable species of bacteria, which can slow the process down.

Increase in nitrates indicates consumption of nitrites. At least that's what i've been led to believe

[DJW]

Thats right, if the nitrate is increasing then nitrite is being consumed. The problem is that while you can measure a decrease of 1 or 2 ppm nitrite with a test kit, you can't measure the corresponding increase in nitrate with nearly that much precision.

We don't need to be that exact with this stuff, but the last time I cycled from scratch I was getting really impatient waiting for the nitrite spike to end, and after diluting it I found that there was enough of a cycle happening that I could go ahead and stock the tank with fish.

I have a tank here with nothing but filters in it that I keep cycled. Sometimes the nitrate gets up to 600ppm before I change the water!

[clark12]

ok so i dose 4ppm ammo and 24 hrs i have 0.5 ammo and 5ppm nitrites and 30+ nitrates. should i leave it alone for another 24 hrs and let the nitrite bacteria build?

[MendoMan]

The couple fishless i've done I would raise to 2PPM and if twenty-four hours later it was zero on both ammonia and nitrites the cycle was complete and ready for a huge water change and fish.