Disease Board Restrictions, yes or no?

[DatDiscusDude]

If I may weigh in... This is a total double edged sword...

It is a damned if ya do damned if you don't sort of make-up, but it is what it is.

I can relate on both regards... I've been on other forums, not only for this hobby but others, experienced Mr. Mud's frustration. All too often, these hobbyist are new, frantic and stressed themselves. It can be difficult to deal with someone like that, invest your own time to help, only to be poopied on when they do whatever they want anyway, or take Joe Discus's advice who is helping them as he currently has his own disease thread open. On the other hand, I myself have experienced something that someone is asking for help but I can not reply because I am not "experienced" or senior enough here. I myself, not even sure if this is ok, have PM'd someone to assist them cause I had an idea or something that may help them, especially when the post sits blank and you see the dreaded "bump" from a new member. This can make or break an experience here and be the reason someone leaves and never comes back or someone stays on for years.

The other side is what ya'll said, people give pooh pooh advice and can really mess someone up, especially if that person w the sick fish is hitting refresh every min and runs with the first response they get assuming we are all experts here.

Charging people money, while in substance makes sense, will turn people off even more...

My 2 cents... Have 2 separate sub forums for the post - Make a free for all section and an expert section. When someone posts it goes to both. Have dedicated "experts" who have a lot of experience only they can post there and thats the best advice, the free forum is anyone and everyone throwing ideas in, but make the poster aware that these are just hobbyist as well sharing ideas. Honestly, some of the better ideas and solutions I have come across have come from me hearing a few different solutions then coming to my own conclusion. So many people push one med for instance, once I had someone suggest something different, give me reasons why and it helped very much, without that I may have had further issue.

Either way, there is no perfect answer for this. I just feel that by shutting all out it does harm too. So my vote would be to separate.

Lastly, is there an area for just medication? Maybe if someone makes stickies on popular meds and how to use them what their uses are for, rank them etc. People can use that as a guide.

I feel the stickies for normal issues and occurrences is huge, it will take time to set up but once there they will be invaluable.

[emil]

I do agree to keep it as it is now, but also as Mud suggested there should also be a mandatory $5.00 donation to Simply for those people that get help in the disease forum. I think it is fair and it will help to support this great forum. In my opinion it is also very important to give not just to receive

[brewmaster15]

Guys though I do appreciate the suggestions here for the mandatory donations for that section.. Its definitely outside my goals for the disease board... I am happy to leave that as optional for people to voluntarily take on themselves if they want to. That section is there to help people. I am trying to find the best way to do that with this discussion.

Thanks,
al

[Second Hand Pat]

While the pay option is interesting; for the management here it becomes a double-edged sword as with payment there is an obligation to give a correct, timely answer to whatever issues arise. I know Al can not be here 24/7 (he has a family after all and other things to do) and our other disease experts post when they can but like most of us, they are volunteers.

If a person receives an answer and it is either not right or not what they want to hear then good chance they may not hang around. Of course there is always the responsibility of the person receiving the advise to represent the situation accurately and to follow the advice given. We know that does not always happen.
Pat

[nc0gnet0]

If I may weigh in... This is a total double edged sword...

It is a damned if ya do damned if you don't sort of make-up, but it is what it is.

I can relate on both regards... I've been on other forums, not only for this hobby but others, experienced Mr. Mud's frustration. All too often, these hobbyist are new, frantic and stressed themselves. It can be difficult to deal with someone like that, invest your own time to help, only to be poopied on when they do whatever they want anyway, or take Joe Discus's advice who is helping them as he currently has his own disease thread open. On the other hand, I myself have experienced something that someone is asking for help but I can not reply because I am not "experienced" or senior enough here. I myself, not even sure if this is ok, have PM'd someone to assist them cause I had an idea or something that may help them, especially when the post sits blank and you see the dreaded "bump" from a new member. This can make or break an experience here and be the reason someone leaves and never comes back or someone stays on for years.

While I am sure that you mean the very best, this has actually caused problems in the past. I don't personally think any help should be given via pm, unless that person sought you out for it first.

The other side is what ya'll said, people give pooh pooh advice and can really mess someone up, especially if that person w the sick fish is hitting refresh every min and runs with the first response they get assuming we are all experts here.

Charging people money, while in substance makes sense, will turn people off even more...

Your probably right, I guess people want free advice more so then they want good advice. I wonder when the last time Al got a donation made to Simply as the result of his or someone else's help they got on the disease forum? I bet he gets a lot more complaints because they didn't get help fast enough........

My 2 cents... Have 2 separate sub forums for the post - Make a free for all section and an expert section. When someone posts it goes to both. Have dedicated "experts" who have a lot of experience only they can post there and thats the best advice, the free forum is anyone and everyone throwing ideas in, but make the poster aware that these are just hobbyist as well sharing ideas. Honestly, some of the better ideas and solutions I have come across have come from me hearing a few different solutions then coming to my own conclusion.

hmmmm

So many people push one med for instance, once I had someone suggest something different, give me reasons why and it helped very much, without that I may have had further issue.

And that is usually the first response you will get from those who haven't been around a while.......

time some one gets there the poor fish will have been treated with 3-4 different meds, and now you don't know if your fighting a disease, or chemical poisoning. One thing I know for sure, is that the first poster than mentions using a medication, that med will be in the tank in hours.

Either way, there is no perfect answer for this. I just feel that by shutting all out it does harm too. So my vote would be to separate.

There are very few fish disease's that require immediate medication, or the fish will die. And if the fish are that far gone, it is highly unlikely anything you can suggest will save it.

Lastly, is there an area for just medication? Maybe if someone makes stickies on popular meds and how to use them what their uses are for, rank them etc. People can use that as a guide.

The problem with this is so many disease's carry symptoms that manifest themselves in much the same way. By the time the user stops self diagnosing and does post to the disease forum, the fish will have been subjected to several different meds.

[RogueDiscus]

I've been following and thinking about this thread since I read it early this morning. It comes on the heels of an experience I had yesterday when, as a moderator, I moved a member's question to the emergency room, and asked them to fill out the questionnaire, as the best course of action. Their response said they posted in the general section because the response time in the emergency area was too slow. They haven't filled out the questionnaire.

This just brings me back to the problems Al originally stated, as I see them: Folks have their own ideas to begin with that they need to get through before they will except the advice of the more experience, and, the pool of experienced folks is small and constantly challenged by the task.

I actually read the post in the link to the requirements for responding in the area. I think they are already a bit generous in requiring only time and activity in order to reply, rather than any specific background or experience, although I understand longevity in this hobby does imply some of that, and that it is an easy to administer check. Even with my years of experience, I still am not qualified to diagnose a disease or prescribe a medication.

But I think I can tell when someone has basic water or husbandry problems (although I'm still reluctant to give too much advice.)

What about a tiered forum where general/initial health questions could be discussed by all, but where problems could be bumped up to the emergency room/hospital, where folks were ready to take the advice of experts, and there were some vetted folks willing to monitor that area?

I do know that in many ways, that's what we already have, but maybe it could be more specifically categorized.

[Clawhammer]

Not all disease questions are expert level. I have encountered many simple questions that I had first hand experience with, but was unable to offer guidance. Maybe just give mods th power to delete bad advice

[Filip]

Not all disease questions are expert level. I have encountered many simple questions that I had first hand experience with, but was unable to offer guidance. Maybe just give mods th power to delete bad advice

I agree 100% with your first part of the post Eric .
Most of the threads in disease section are begginers , water quality related issues .
They are also the most defiant and stubborn for excepting advice's because it involves addmiting and changing their wrong keeping routines, and excepting this is the hardest thing to do for a begginer .
It would be good if moderate experienced members take part in helping them , leaving only the more complicated issues for advanced members to deal with .

I'm still hesitant of deleting "wrong advices" though.

[brewmaster15]

I think it may be worth while to try incorporating some of these suggestions into the disease board. I would like to hear from more members though.

Thanks,
al

[Keith Perkins]

Just a thought Al, but what about creating some stickies for common things that we see come up frequently in the disease section and how to further diagnose and treat? White stringy pooh, breathing from one gill, cloudy eye, white spots, etc. Some people don't seem to like to use the search function, maybe they'd read a sticky?

I don't mind at all offering advice when I have first hand experience with I problem I've successfully treated, but I'm sure I've still failed on that front more often than I've been successful. If in doubt, up the water changes.

[two utes]

In my opinion, I would rather have a late response from an expert than someone that thinks he is with all good intentions.
Something that may have worked for someone in the past may not be the right remedy for someone else. It would be good if the 'team' was made larger to enable a quicker response, as l imagine how frustrating it must be for the person waiting for a reply that has sick fish, and they would take any advice given being right or wrong from the broader community.

One thing that came to my mind is some kind of flowchart that would make some key suggestions such as 'water changes' 'salt treatment' or whatever that would help the situation until someone qualified stepped in to help.

People must respect and understand that the good people on here are all volunteers, and have limited time to spend on the forum. I don't think charging money for advise is a good idea at all, and I'm sure people know where the 'donate button' is if they want to contribute to this forum for which ever reason.....just my 2 cents worth.

Good luck with your decision, and keep up the great work you and your moderators do on this forum.

[warblad79]

There should also be a mandatory $5.00 donation to Simply for those people that get help in the disease forum. Maybe this will help sort out those that are actually serious about helping their fish from those that want to just dump meds in their tank and all is better........

This is what I had in mind for a very long time. Some people post in the disease section and they expect you to answer them immediately but don't contribute anything.

[Jenene]

In my opinion, I would rather have a late response from an expert than someone that thinks he is with all good intentions.
Something that may have worked for someone in the past may not be the right remedy for someone else. It would be good if the 'team' was made larger to enable a quicker response, as l imagine how frustrating it must be for the person waiting for a reply that has sick fish, and they would take any advice given being right or wrong from the broader community.

One thing that came to my mind is some kind of flowchart that would make some key suggestions such as 'water changes' 'salt treatment' or whatever that would help the situation until someone qualified stepped in to help.

People must respect and understand that the good people on here are all volunteers, and have limited time to spend on the forum. I don't think charging money for advise is a good idea at all, and I'm sure people know where the 'donate button' is if they want to contribute to this forum for which ever reason.....just my 2 cents worth.

Good luck with your decision, and keep up the great work you and your moderators do on this forum.

Wow...I had started a response several times and kept deleting it due to the fact that I could not get it worded correctly and thought I would go back later and try again. Now I don't have to thanks to Joe. Eloquent and precisely what I was thinking but could not tactfully say. My only other addition would be instead of writing off the idea of the charge completely would be to maybe post a reminder note or little banner over the section and a link to donations if they found the information informative and useful-like a "tip jar" perhaps.

Another post had mentioned that no one ever donated out of gratitude for help and I just have to speak up and point out that Lido/aka Casey, recently went above and beyond by starting a small "fundraiser" thread in gratitude for the help he received here. So that exemplifies that there are grateful members that would absolutely put a bit of a donation in the tip jar.

This forum is valuable beyond words to so many for advice and it is a great resource for everything discus, photography and even reef keeping as well as a place to just hang out among friends with common passions. It could not happen without the great people beyond the curtain. Thank you Al for posing these difficult and controversial questions and for the willingness to listen and weigh all those differing points of view. It is not an easy job by any means. I know I appreciate your efforts more than I can express here.

Thanks Two Utes for your post!

[Neptune]

tiered system?

level 1----free for all....buyer beware....fast response because anyone can reply
level2 expert help only.....

[LizStreithorst]

Think about this, Al...What about appointing a group of people you think worthy as mods of the disease section? That way anyone can give their opinion but the people who you trust will be the most respected. The most recently appointed mod should be charged with the chore of answering all the questions that we have answered a thousand times before. That will weed out the ones who think that it will be a fun job.