Acclimation of Discus how should I do this with shipped fish

[Mangalman]

I am going to take the plunge (new to discus) on getting my first discus. I may start with 4.5 inch fish and possibly 6 of them for a 75 gal. planted tank. The shipper in CA says his pH is about 7.4 and mine in around 7.6. Since the pH is so close can I get away with doing a pour into a bucket then add water incrementally from my tank and eventually (plop)method? I imagine their is going to be a lot of fish waste in the bags so I can't see it would be good to allow the fish to rest in that water for very long? I don't have another tank set up as quarantine either nor do I have water that has been (aged and gone through a cycle). Am I going to be in trouble. I so hope all will go well for me. I also currently have a school of 30 cardinal tetra in the tank (6 mo to a year) and a few embers - canister filter etc. thanks for your helps and input. Luke

[gluedandscrewed]

lost many fish trying to do the incremental acclimation thats been touted for ages until i read the acclimation instructions at somethingsfishy.com,, haven't had a chance to try it but it makes sense.

[MendoMan]

Float your bags long enough to get equal temp then remove fish from bag and put in your tank. That's it.

[Kirbs]

That's what I just did an hour ago! Floated the bags, drained the water and slid them from the bag to the tank! Everything is fine so far!

[RogueDiscus]

An important instruction I've received from my supplier was to not get any of the shipping water into your tank due to the waste and I think ammonia build up. Once the bag is opened and gasses are released, the ammonia in the water starts to become the toxic form. You want to get the fish out of that water quickly and plop them into your tank. My opinion is that your pH difference would not be a problem.

I haven't read somethingsfishy's instructions, but I did just read somewhere here recently that they use Kordon shipping bags. I think these are breathable bags and the acclimation process for them may be different that shipping in regular plastic bags.

[Second Hand Pat]

I have helped Ryan tank several of his shipments; best way is to cut open the bag, do not allow any air to enter the bag, drain the water out of the bag into a bucket, sink whatever while holding the opening to the bag somewhat closed so the fish remains in the bag. Once the water is drained walk the bag to the tank and allow the fish to ease from the bag into the tank. We have tanked hundreds of fish this way.
Pat

[gluedandscrewed]

An important instruction I've received from my supplier was to not get any of the shipping water into your tank due to the waste and I think ammonia build up. Once the bag is opened and gasses are released, the ammonia in the water starts to become the toxic form. You want to get the fish out of that water quickly and plop them into your tank. My opinion is that your pH difference would not be a problem.

I haven't read somethingsfishy's instructions, but I did just read somewhere here recently that they use Kordon shipping bags. I think these are breathable bags and the acclimation process for them may be different that shipping in regular plastic bags.

somethingsfishy's instructions are per your quote,,, "somefinsfishy" uses the kordon bags, he only sells fry cause he can ship one in the bag in only a cup of water

[Bizarro252]

I cannot find somethingsfishy.com's directions, the results I do get trying to search for it do not appear to be what I am looking for...

I myself am expecting discus later this week for the first time. My plan was to put them and their bag water into a bucket and drip water from the tank into the bucket over the course of an hour or so...

I see many people here and elsewhere mentioning not letting air into the bag, stating that the ammonia will become toxic - I do not understand this - for this to happen the PH of the water would have to change sharply for ammonium to switch to ammonia, and this should not happen just by exposing the bag water to air.

I have high PH water (~8.3), and will probably be about a full point above what the discus are being shipped in (From Hans) and used to so I do not see a way around a drip method, or mix method. I would think they would surely get pH shocked if I just acclimated the temp and slid them in.

Tank water will have O2 in it as well so the dish should not suffocate as this will be being added to their water - am I WAY off base here? Need to know if so - I dont want to hurt my fish when they get here!

[Second Hand Pat]

I cannot find somethingsfishy.com's directions, the results I do get trying to search for it do not appear to be what I am looking for...

I myself am expecting discus later this week for the first time. My plan was to put them and their bag water into a bucket and drip water from the tank into the bucket over the course of an hour or so...

I see many people here and elsewhere mentioning not letting air into the bag, stating that the ammonia will become toxic - I do not understand this - for this to happen the PH of the water would have to change sharply for ammonium to switch to ammonia, and this should not happen just by exposing the bag water to air.

I have high PH water (~8.3), and will probably be about a full point above what the discus are being shipped in (From Hans) and used to so I do not see a way around a drip method, or mix method. I would think they would surely get pH shocked if I just acclimated the temp and slid them in.

Tank water will have O2 in it as well so the dish should not suffocate as this will be being added to their water - am I WAY off base here? Need to know if so - I dont want to hurt my fish when they get here!

I would suggesting asking Hans. Pretty sure he is a drop and plop guy. He can explain what happens to ph in a shipping bag and when exposed to air.
Pat

[Bizarro252]

I would suggesting asking Hans. Pretty sure he is a drop and plop guy. He can explain what happens to ph in a shipping bag and when exposed to air.
Pat

Thanks, I will. I assume he has some sort of paperwork of suggestions I know he and others are a drop and plop believer - I am just hesitant with a full point or maybe more in PH difference - thats 10 times different water in one direction or the other

I get that the PH of the bag would change VERY fast if you threw an airstone in it - but just opening it...not sure on that. I guess however if you drip you are adding gasses to the water that was in the bag, and could spike PH in one direction or the other... Hrm. Research time. Thank you.

[RogueDiscus]

I'll get out of the way after this since my understanding is all second hand, but I thought it was that opening the bags allowed dissolved gasses inside to escape (CO2?) causing the switch to toxic ammonia.

Also, sorry for confusing somethingsfishy with somefinsfishy.

[Larry Bugg]

I cannot find somethingsfishy.com's directions, the results I do get trying to search for it do not appear to be what I am looking for...

I myself am expecting discus later this week for the first time. My plan was to put them and their bag water into a bucket and drip water from the tank into the bucket over the course of an hour or so...

I see many people here and elsewhere mentioning not letting air into the bag, stating that the ammonia will become toxic - I do not understand this - for this to happen the PH of the water would have to change sharply for ammonium to switch to ammonia, and this should not happen just by exposing the bag water to air.

I have high PH water (~8.3), and will probably be about a full point above what the discus are being shipped in (From Hans) and used to so I do not see a way around a drip method, or mix method. I would think they would surely get pH shocked if I just acclimated the temp and slid them in.

Tank water will have O2 in it as well so the dish should not suffocate as this will be being added to their water - am I WAY off base here? Need to know if so - I dont want to hurt my fish when they get here!

Yes, you are way off base. Read post #2 for a better explanation than I can give. I do just as Pat suggested and have for years now. It is the best way to do this.
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...In-Acclimation

[RogueDiscus]

Thank you Larry!

[fishermn7]

Drop and plop

[Bizarro252]

Yes, you are way off base. Read post #2 for a better explanation than I can give. I do just as Pat suggested and have for years now. It is the best way to do this.
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...In-Acclimation

Thank you! I hope I did not come across cocky, I do very much want to understand the reasons why something could be good/bad is all I will check out that post in the thread you linked - my new discus likely thank you

Edit:
Ah OK that makes perfect sense, I did not think about the C02 produced by the fish dropping the PH of the transport water. It is 100% correct that ammonia is less toxic at low PH and become toxic VERY quickly as PH rises - this article is one I found a while ago on the subject and has a handy chart to show just how this happens.

Thanks again Larry

http://www.aquaworldaquarium.com/Art...ts/Ammonia.htm


I have a follow up question then however - would it be worth it, in a situation where your PH is widely alkaline, to dilute your tank water with RO water, to get the PH somewhere in between the two (and have it the same temp as the tank, and acclimate the bag water to this temp as well) and put the fish into this 'median' water for a bit - or is that just overkill even in a wide PH difference situation?

I ask because I am already planning on aging my water because I notice a 0.5 PH rise between the tap and aged, and this seems to be large enough of a difference that I have seen it recommended to age vs add new water directly with my python - ,maybe un-needed for a 20% change, but for 50%+ it seems advantageous. Or are fish just not nearly as sensitive to PH changes as I have been lead to believe?


Thanks