Nitrates in Tap? Alternate solution to RODI!

[Bizarro252]

Hello Everyone!

TLDR: I tested a cheap, reusable resin that removes Nitrate directly from water, quickly!



I by no means have extreme Nitrate at the tap, but enough to annoy me (10-15ppm) and have been looking for an alternative to RODI, which I will move to if I need to or find it to be the most economical choice - but at this point I just don't think my water is bad enough to warrant it, even with juvenile Discus.

So, in came NitraZorb. I had no real interest in using this product in the tanks filter itself as despite what they claim about it not affecting your cycle I don't see how that can be 100% true if it indeed adsorbs Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate as the product claims.

I was also skeptical of its claims specifically about Nitrate, figuring, since their information is a little vague...that in didn't directly adsorb Nitrate, but indirectly affected it by adsorbing Ammonia and Nitrite before it was converted to Nitrate.

BUT! To my amazement this was untrue, it actually adsorbs Nitrate, directly from the water - and FAST!
**I also want to just mention I am in no way associated with or advertising for this product... I just had an idea and want to share it as well as get feedback from the community!

So - here we go, here is what I have to back this up thusfar:

My Water:
PH: 7.8tap 8.3 aged - KH 9 - GH 7 - Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 0 - Nitrate 10-15

My Goal:
To reduce or eliminate Nitrate in the source water used for water changes, make it easy, repeatable, and cost effective

My Concerns:
PH/KH/GH, would they be affected? This is surely true in the RODI situation, but would a product like NitraZorb also alter them?
-I found this to not be the case, PH was identical, KH and GH *maybe* went down half a point on the API test, it was hard to tell for sure, I will continue to monitor
Salt/Sodium Ions: NitraZorb is an ion exchange resin, rechargeable by soaking in a brine solution, would the sodium ions it must exchange for Nitrate have any effect on the water or the fish?
-This, I dont know, however even if ALL of the salt used to recharge the resin were to leech into the water all at once (aprox 4 tablespoons) I do not think this would be enough to impact the health of the fish - PLEASE feel free to correct me if I am wrong here...

The Experiment:
The first thing I did was set up a 5 gal bucket with an AC50 hanging off the side, I filled it up and took a control sample. I then put the rinsed bag of Nitrazorb in the filter and ran it for 1 hour (I also added a few drops of Prime, but as I note later, in the second experiment I did not and saw the same results). After 1 hour Nitrate had been reduced from 10ppm to 5ppm. I tested the control and sample at the same time in the same (as per the instructions, including a 1 min shake of the bottled, in my hand together after adding bottle #2, which I THOROUGHLY beat the crap out of as usual to mix).

I then took the same setup and moved it onto my 33gal trash bin that I use for aging water, after 3 hours I took a second sample, same results from 10 to 5ppm.

Next I built a pipe with an adapter on one size to screw into a half inch threaded fitting on the output of my refill pump, and a cap with holes drilled in the other side. I put a piece of filter floss, followed by the bag of NitraZorb, and one more pc of floss in the pipe and ran it in a fresh barrel of water for 1 hour. Results were the same! 10 to 5ppm!

I did not recharge the NitraZorb between these experiments, but am currently doing so today.

I will follow this up with:
How many gallons will it treat one one 'charge'?
How far will it reduce Nitrates if left to run for 24 hours?
Does the product truly stop being able to be recharged back to full effectiveness after a period of time? (Bag suggests tossing it after 2 months, could be real, could be a gimmick to make you buy more...)



I view this as a great success! As I said I do not want to run this in the tank, but for change water it seems to do exactly what I want! I am curious if it will go lower than 5ppm or if that is the lower limit of what it will adsorb...maybe it will get down to 5 quickly and just takes longer to go lower since the concentration is so low.

SO! If anyone else is interested let me know your experience!

Also if anyone has comments on ANY downsides please let me and others know, I am actively using this and in NO WAY want to risk harm to my fish, I do not see a way for this to happen but if you do please let me know! (mostly concerned about the sodium ions from the exchange resin...)


Tips:
If you move the bag, at all...re-rinse it, it clouds the water, not bad, but notably.
It doesn't seem to matter if the water is dechlorinated or not, I tried it both ways, same results
I am unsure if temperature affects it, I wouldn't let it get to hot or boil it, etc but I started it in cold and warm water with the same results.


Thanks!

Matt

[DJW]

NitraZorb is about half zeolite, which removes ammonia, and half ion-exchange resin, which removes nitrate. I don't know if the resin it uses is the standard anion resin or a nitrate-selective resin, they don't say.

Rather than using zeolite, which you don't need, it might be better to experiment with a special resin designed to remove nitrate, like this one:

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/nitrat...FdK3wAod8FgDjA

Notice it says, "... each 500ml of NitratR will remove 20ppm nitrate in 100 US-gallons of water (or 10ppm per 200 US-gallons). When nitrate concentration remains unchanged or begins to increase, regenerate as described below."

So it looks like you would need to regenerate the resin every few days. Its hard to say if it would be easier/cheaper for you than RO. Worth a try though. If its too much trouble you can always put some pothos plants on the tank.

(btw - the resin trades the chloride in the salt for nitrate, not the sodium)

[Kyla]

we are so lucky here to have 0 nitrates from tap, i can imagine that would be very frustrating for fishkeepers, so hopefully this helps someone. i once ran a lightly stocked tank with so much pothos vine that it always had 0 nitrate (and my kit was workig fine!) so if i were in that situation thats another thing i might try... a crazy ton of plant roots hanging in the water to suck the nitrates up.

[Ryan925]

NitraZorb is about half zeolite, which removes ammonia, and half ion-exchange resin, which removes nitrate. I don't know if the resin it uses is the standard anion resin or a nitrate-selective resin, they don't say.

Rather than using zeolite, which you don't need, it might be better to experiment with a special resin designed to remove nitrate, like this one:

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/nitrat...FdK3wAod8FgDjA

Notice it says, "... each 500ml of NitratR will remove 20ppm nitrate in 100 US-gallons of water (or 10ppm per 200 US-gallons). When nitrate concentration remains unchanged or begins to increase, regenerate as described below."

So it looks like you would need to regenerate the resin every few days. Its hard to say if it would be easier/cheaper for you than RO. Worth a try though. If its too much trouble you can always put some pothos plants on the tank.

(btw - the resin trades the chloride in the salt for nitrate, not the sodium)

Not sure about that product specifically but it would seem similar to bio pellets. Bio pellets are a well documented way of removing large amounts of nitrate when used properly. The keys are using it in a reactor and in conjunction with a skimmer. This is one we are not able to use bio pellets on freshwater.

I think if it was as simple as just running a small bag of a product it would be more widely used. With that said I hope you do find a way that works for you although ro may be your finally solution. As kyla says those of us with no nitrate in our tap are very fortunate. Best of luck. Will definitely check in on the progress results here.

[Bizarro252]

NitraZorb is about half zeolite, which removes ammonia, and half ion-exchange resin, which removes nitrate. I don't know if the resin it uses is the standard anion resin or a nitrate-selective resin, they don't say.

Rather than using zeolite, which you don't need, it might be better to experiment with a special resin designed to remove nitrate, like this one:

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/nitrat...FdK3wAod8FgDjA

Notice it says, "... each 500ml of NitratR will remove 20ppm nitrate in 100 US-gallons of water (or 10ppm per 200 US-gallons). When nitrate concentration remains unchanged or begins to increase, regenerate as described below."

So it looks like you would need to regenerate the resin every few days. Its hard to say if it would be easier/cheaper for you than RO. Worth a try though. If its too much trouble you can always put some pothos plants on the tank.

(btw - the resin trades the chloride in the salt for nitrate, not the sodium)

THANK YOU! for the info - good to know its a mixture, I can see there are two products in the bag (small rock looking things and beads, similar to purigen) I assume the beads were the resin. Thanks for that link as well, I bet that would be a better long term solution!

As for what type of resin is used, this answer from DFS might help?? I see the customer talks about the two types, apparently one is not OK to mix with iron and the Nitrazorb is NOT that one... any idea which is which compared to the two types you mentioned?

Customer Question:
Can Nitra-Zorb be used in a planted aquarium that receives extra Iron?
There are two types of Nitrate removal polymers. One can be used with elevated levels of Iron and function properly. The other type will remove the Iron and be destroyed by it.

DFS Employee Answer:
Thank you for your question. We checked with the manufacturer and they said the following: there are no issues when supplementing with iron and using Nitra-Zorb.

[Bizarro252]

Not sure about that product specifically but it would seem similar to bio pellets. Bio pellets are a well documented way of removing large amounts of nitrate when used properly. The keys are using it in a reactor and in conjunction with a skimmer. This is one we are not able to use bio pellets on freshwater.

I think if it was as simple as just running a small bag of a product it would be more widely used. With that said I hope you do find a way that works for you although ro may be your finally solution. As kyla says those of us with no nitrate in our tap are very fortunate. Best of luck. Will definitely check in on the progress results here.

Hi Ryan, thanks for the reply - I had heard of bio pellets and knew I needed a reactor to run them but was not aware of needing a skimmer - DOH!

[Ryan925]

Hi Ryan, thanks for the reply - I had heard of bio pellets and knew I needed a reactor to run them but was not aware of needing a skimmer - DOH!

Yep I did lots of research on them. Was thinking about He using a bio pellet reactor for my sump. From what I have read is that as the bacteria feeds on the pellets and they dissolve the byproduct is a lot of excess nutrients into your tank. To combat that the outlet of the reactor is plumbed into the intake of the skimmer to remove the waste. Also from what I have learned a skimmer is not effective with freshwater so that idea was shot down

I hope you find a good resolution to your issue. Will be interested in the results of your science experiment

Why type of filtration do you use?

There are some nitrate removing products that I have read pretty good things about but they need to be in a very low flow area like in a sump.

[DJW]

As for what type of resin is used, this answer from DFS might help?? I see the customer talks about the two types, apparently one is not OK to mix with iron and the Nitrazorb is NOT that one... any idea which is which compared to the two types you mentioned?

Its not clear from the Q&A which type of resin they are using. Either way it would be better to use a nitrate selective resin that won't dump the nitrate back when it reaches its capacity.

Here is a good article on nitrate removal resins.

http://www.wwdmag.com/nitrate-removal-ion-exchange

You can get automated systems that work like a water softener, but they cost more than RO. Here is an example of one. I'm not sure but these might make low pH water in the first batch after a regeneration.

https://www.pelicanwater.com/nitrate...gn=WP-Shopping

[Bizarro252]

Yep I did lots of research on them. Was thinking about He using a bio pellet reactor for my sump. From what I have read is that as the bacteria feeds on the pellets and they dissolve the byproduct is a lot of excess nutrients into your tank. To combat that the outlet of the reactor is plumbed into the intake of the skimmer to remove the waste. Also from what I have learned a skimmer is not effective with freshwater so that idea was shot down

I hope you find a good resolution to your issue. Will be interested in the results of your science experiment

Why type of filtration do you use?

There are some nitrate removing products that I have read pretty good things about but they need to be in a very low flow area like in a sump.

Hello again Ryan!

I did know they pellets were consumed (sounds like those bacteria require a source of carbon) but I didnt even think about the excess waste and the advantage of a skimmer to clean it up...hrm, I wonder if they would still be OK in a tank where you were doing large frequent changes to get rid of the waste...

I wanted to find a solution that took care of the source Nitrate from the tap because what I am seeing is a bump of less than 5ppm a day when I do my WC from the actual fish waste going through the cycle, I can tell its higher than at the tap, but not much. So if I added plants, biopellets, etc I would basically be putting the fish through a jump up to 10 or so ppm every WC and that would slowly go down to zero, then BAM back up again next WC. I didnt want this cycle of movement in the parameters so thats why I wanted something to get rid of it up front, so at least then we are talking going from 5ppm to 2-3ppm from a WC If that makes sense...basically my tap comes pre-contaminated with 3 days of fishwaste worth of Nitrates lol...

I went ahead and purchased that resin from BRS, I think it is very similar to the resin in the NitraZorb but has the advantage of not having other stuff in it as well, which I think is what clouds the water if I disturb the bag. Having just the resin will get rid of this issue - I also like that it has more specific details about how much it can adsorb and how long it will last (says you can recharge over 250 times!!)

My Discus tank is a 55gal with 6x 3-3.5" Hans Discus, filtered by 3x Hydro sponges (size 4) and a Fluval 406 with an ehiem prefilter and homemade spraybar output. The canister has the stock foam in the first area, and the bottom basket, the remaining baskets are filled with BioHome ultimate and two bags of purigen on the top level (also some fliter floss).
I pulled it open the other day after about a week in operation and its sparkling in there, that prefilter is amazing

On my Mbuna tank I have a HOB fry thing, with a VERY slow pump, the first section has filter floss and the next two have Seachem DeNitrate, which has pothos and bamboo planted in it. My nitrates are still high in that tank but they do not get nearly as high by the end of the week as they used to - so its working but not nearly enough to reduce it massively, mostly just maintains a decent level... Might put something similar on the discus tank when they are adults, for now if I can get my source nitrates down and continue my daily 50% WCs I think Nitrates should hover around 5ppm

[Bizarro252]

Its not clear from the Q&A which type of resin they are using. Either way it would be better to use a nitrate selective resin that won't dump the nitrate back when it reaches its capacity.

Here is a good article on nitrate removal resins.

http://www.wwdmag.com/nitrate-removal-ion-exchange

You can get automated systems that work like a water softener, but they cost more than RO. Here is an example of one. I'm not sure but these might make low pH water in the first batch after a regeneration.

https://www.pelicanwater.com/nitrate...gn=WP-Shopping

Thank you! I will read through that article this evening. I went ahead and grabbed 500ml of that product you posted from BRS and some bags for it. That should work even better as its purpose built for ONLY targeting Nitrate so thank you! I will report back!

[Ryan925]

How about a sulfur reactor? From what I understand they don't need to be fed a carbon source and are low maintenance. I believe it does lower ph of water but I wonder what they effect would be on an aging barrel nitrate reduction vs ph drop

Just kicking ideas around. Might be worth reading up on

[brewmaster15]

If your nitrates are only 10-15 ppms , you may want to get a water storage barrel , stick a grow light over it... and root a bunch of Pothos or some other nitrate loving plants.. They can easily handle those levels. Cheap. biodegradable, improves your air quality and the fishes water quality.


al

[Ryan925]

If your nitrates are only 10-15 ppms , you may want to get a water storage barrel , stick a grow light over it... and root a bunch of Pothos or some other nitrate loving plants.. They can easily handle those levels. Cheap. biodegradable, improves your air quality and the fishes water quality.


al

Leave it to Al to bring up the most simple answer. Guess we are overthinking

[Bizarro252]

How about a sulfur reactor? From what I understand they don't need to be fed a carbon source and are low maintenance. I believe it does lower ph of water but I wonder what they effect would be on an aging barrel nitrate reduction vs ph drop

Just kicking ideas around. Might be worth reading up on

I have seen that while poking around but didnt even click on it, figured it was some reef thing I will check into it thanks for the tip
I think this product DJW pointed out will work even better than my current setup. I am going to buy a smaller pump (current one for refilling the tank is 850GPH and very loud...just a cheapo one...) and just hook it directly to the pipe 'reactor' thing I made and let it just run in the aging barrel whenever its full - since it will not leech Nitrate back out it shouldn't be an issue to just leave it running in there until it becomes exhausted and recharge it.

Checking into the sulfur ones too

If your nitrates are only 10-15 ppms , you may want to get a water storage barrel , stick a grow light over it... and root a bunch of Pothos or some other nitrate loving plants.. They can easily handle those levels. Cheap. biodegradable, improves your air quality and the fishes water quality.


al

I guess I had not considered that because I was unsure if they would consume enough in 24 hours to have an effect. I do have pothos in most of my tanks though - good stuff
My guys love your FDBW btw

[Bizarro252]

Its not clear from the Q&A which type of resin they are using. Either way it would be better to use a nitrate selective resin that won't dump the nitrate back when it reaches its capacity.

Here is a good article on nitrate removal resins.

http://www.wwdmag.com/nitrate-removal-ion-exchange

You can get automated systems that work like a water softener, but they cost more than RO. Here is an example of one. I'm not sure but these might make low pH water in the first batch after a regeneration.

https://www.pelicanwater.com/nitrate...gn=WP-Shopping

Interesting note from the article you posted, sounds like the Nitrate Selective resins will not have this effect nearly as much as non selective but good idea regardless to buffer the brine you recharge with just incase
Thanks again for the resource.

pH Effects

Anion resin in the chloride form removes not only nitrates, but also sulfate and alkalinity. The removal of alkalinity can lead to a reduction in pH of the product water in the beginning of the run. To minimize this effect and add some buffering ability back to the water, soda ash (Na2 CO3) can be added to the brine tank. This will convert a portion of the resin to the bicarbonate form during regeneration. A ratio of one lb./cu. ft. of soda ash mixed with nine lbs./cu. ft. of salt can be used.