Save my dying yellows!

[AlphaFins]

Hello, i got 14 pcs of yellows some 6 days ago. Since i get fish from my trusted breeder a few times already and never had problems i just kept them in the base deck aquarium for a short light qurantine. I shifted them to the top shelf a couple of days ago and i did a 50% waterchange yesterday. Now i always add hypo and age the water for a couple of days before using, but seems like my mum filled the aged water with 25% of fresh tap water and i wasnt aware of that.

After the water change 20 hours ago, 8 hours later i checked and the discus (the biggest of the lot only, about 6 males of 6 inches) started floating around the tank without any energy, they would get spun around by the airstones and still wont react. i removed 80% of the water and added 30% RO water so that the tank would be filled 50%. Added two airstones at high pressure and a handfull of rock salt and removed the sponge filter and the heater (water temperature is 28 at room temperature.

So this morning, 10 mins ago i checked again and 2 of the biggest males have sunk to the bottom and breathing very slow with no movement at all.

How do i save them? Please help!

[Second Hand Pat]

Do you use a de-chlorinator in your water? Guessing some sort of chemical poisoning like chlorine/chlorimine. like Also I see no reason to remove the sponge filter. Is that you only source of filtration and maintaining a active bio? How are the fish doing now?
Pat

[AlphaFins]

Do you use a de-chlorinator in your water? Guessing some sort of chemical poisoning like chlorine/chlorimine. like Also I see no reason to remove the sponge filter. Is that you only source of filtration and maintaining a active bio? How are the fish doing now?
Pat

I use Hypo, yes. Usually add hypo and airstones to my storage drums for a day before use. Like i said my mum filled one of these drums with 25%fresh tap water and i didnt know.
Yes i only use a sponge filter, i syphon 3 times a day and do 20%water changes daily.

Here is the strange part, i got 5-6 Inches 8 yellows from one breeder and 4 inches 6 adults from another breeder. Only the biggest largest ones are affected, one just died an hour ago and the other huge 6 inch fishes are now sunk to the bottom gasping for air. If this is indeed chlorine poisoning why did it not affect the smaller 4inch ones? The 5 biggest adults from the first breeder are all going to go down one by one but his other small 3 are just fine just like the smaller 6 from the other dealer. Any other possible reason or any other course of action we can take? i Just did a 90% water change and replaced it with RO water again.

Some pics and video for reference, thanks.

[AlphaFins]

Here's today's video

[jmf3460]

this is hard to read...and watch. have you checked for stray voltage? are you noticing the fish flinch or anything all of a sudden as if they are being electrocuted?

[RogueDiscus]

Good idea Jacklyn.
Just giving ideas:
If you are sure your ro and tap can be made safe, I don't think it can hurt to change more water.
Is it only the fish from the one shipment? Do you have another tank you can put them in? or pull out the other group?
It does sound like a chemical issue, and if the damage is already done, clean water may be the best you can do. I've had experience where the larger fish struggle first, I've assumed, due to more air requirements or something.

[nc0gnet0]

I'm a little confused, your first post makes it sound like the fish all came from one breeder, and the second post makes it sound like they came from two different breeders.

Is it safe to assume you mixed fish from two different sources into the same tank at the same time (right after purchase). And all of the effected fish came from the same breeder?

For now. remove all effected fish to a separate tank, treat with meth blue, and keep your fingers crossed, but this doesn't look good.

Also, get the sponge filters BACK IN THE TANK!

What is your ammonia reading, please don't tell me you don't have a test kit (please please).

-Rick

[RogueDiscus]

Thanks Rick! At least I may have been on the right track and I don't think I've done any damage.

[AlphaFins]

this is hard to read...and watch. have you checked for stray voltage? are you noticing the fish flinch or anything all of a sudden as if they are being electrocuted?

Nothing of that sort, the heater you see in the tank has been unplugged and switched off for a couple of days now (water temp is 29 without the heater)

Good idea Jacklyn.
Just giving ideas:
If you are sure your ro and tap can be made safe, I don't think it can hurt to change more water.
Is it only the fish from the one shipment? Do you have another tank you can put them in? or pull out the other group?
It does sound like a chemical issue, and if the damage is already done, clean water may be the best you can do. I've had experience where the larger fish struggle first, I've assumed, due to more air requirements or something.

I got 6 spare tanks, i was planning to isolate the affected ones but since they were hardly breathing or moving (not even fin movement) i decided not to risk it, also because it was not a infection that would spread, a local discus hobbyist came over to help and he suggested shifting them again would cause more stress since the huge ones seem to be on their last breath. Do you think i should shift them? If yes then what do i change in the procedure i am doing now?

I'm a little confused, your first post makes it sound like the fish all came from one breeder, and the second post makes it sound like they came from two different breeders.

Is it safe to assume you mixed fish from two different sources into the same tank at the same time (right after purchase). And all of the effected fish came from the same breeder?

For now. remove all effected fish to a separate tank, treat with meth blue, and keep your fingers crossed, but this doesn't look good.

Also, get the sponge filters BACK IN THE TANK!

What is your ammonia reading, please don't tell me you don't have a test kit (please please).

-Rick

Two different breeders, the affected huge ones are from my trusted breeder. Yes i got both the shipments together by the same train and i put them in the light qurantine together and they were active aggressive and zero peppering or signs of stress.
In a small city like this even my online orders take 12 days, i shall get the kit in 4 more days. But I am doing 80% water change three times a day (havent slept in 36 hours) and no feeding since the past two days so my ammonia levels should be very very low if not zero.

Same question, is it safe to shift them now?

............


Thank you for all the advise, appreciate it

[brewmaster15]

This looks like some kind of chemical poisoning to me.. You mention you treat with hypo so I am guessing your source water usually has only chlorine added. Its possible they added chloramine or super dosed on the chlorine . Municipals will do this from time to time. I see you are from India? Can you contact your water supplier and ask?

Id also suspect some other toxin like cleaning agents,pesticides, etc.

Also...its possible for individual fish to be more or less affected.

[AlphaFins]

This looks like some kind of chemical poisoning to me.. You mention you treat with hypo so I am guessing your source water usually has only chlorine added. Its possible they added chloramine or super dosed on the chlorine . Municipals will do this from time to time. I see you are from India? Can you contact your water supplier and ask?

Id also suspect some other toxin like cleaning agents,pesticides, etc.

Also...its possible for individual fish to be more or less affected.

Ah asking them questions like these would be like asking a cow to do brain surgery, they would take me for a crazy man speaking gibberish. The part in India i am from is very dry for half a year, i had to spend in excess of 200$ to get a water connection that supplies once in 4 days (everyone relies on borewell/underground water, but the TDS is around 550 so i havent tried using it yet) . I have 9 tanks running right now (240 ltrs x 7 and 95 x 2) I get 16 bottles of 18 ltr RO water every day and when i do 20% water changes i add 10% RO with 10% aged and hypo treated tap water.

Is there a way to sterilize the stored water completely? (cant boil 600ltrs of water everyday)

[brewmaster15]

Depending on how deep the well, it may be usable, 550 tds is fine for growouts...you can even maybe breed in it. My well water is similar. As for sterilizing it.., bleach would work...then neutralize. If you have a ground well ,id get an ro unit and use that instead. You can get some very effective sediment and carbon blocks, then the ro membrane and you should be ok unless the ground water is very bad.
Al

[nc0gnet0]

OK, so the fish were in the bottom tank, then you moved to top tank. Did you use any cleaners on the top tank or recently reseal the top tank?

-Rick

Do you have access to meth blue?

[AlphaFins]

Been to tired and busy to update, so this is what happened, good news and bad news.

After the first death and 5 more sunk to the bottom and didnt move for a day this morning i saw 4 of them back on their fins, not at the bottom anymore but gliding/swimming, but still with the head a little inclined to the bottom of the tank. Now only one remains on the bottom but still breathing. Huge RO water changes and good areation seems to do the trick, unless somehow they suddenly decide to drop dead.

Fingers crossed, i do have one question though, when do i start feeding again? and when should i start to increase the level of the water in the tank?

Thank you.

Depending on how deep the well, it may be usable, 550 tds is fine for growouts...you can even maybe breed in it. My well water is similar. As for sterilizing it.., bleach would work...then neutralize. If you have a ground well ,id get an ro unit and use that instead. You can get some very effective sediment and carbon blocks, then the ro membrane and you should be ok unless the ground water is very bad.
Al

PH 8 and TDS 550

Really? The water leaves solid thin scales in my entire water storage tank used for daily stuff. You try to heat water and it will cover all metals within a week. During a water change i decided to test it on my 1.5 inch red map babies (10% hard water and 10% tap water for the daily 20% water change) and within 4 days of the routine they became very sluggish, they would never leave food left but now they did leave food behing and not the aggressive feeders anymore. Maybe it's the TDS shock or something but i'll continue using hard water for them to see if they adapt and get super active soon.

OK, so the fish were in the bottom tank, then you moved to top tank. Did you use any cleaners on the top tank or recently reseal the top tank?

-Rick

Do you have access to meth blue?

Yes and no. Its been used till a week before for my 2 inch babies but it was thoroughly washed with PP and methyl blue and dried for a week with a couple of clean water baths in between. Yes i do have methyl blue, should i use it?

[AlphaFins]

So after the first two deaths, i had a third one today. The biggest of them all, around 7 inch. Poor guy was spinning dure to the flow of the airfilters copletely motionless and no fin movement, only the occasional pump of the gills.

My only worry is the remaining 3 big ones of the affected lot, they dont seem to have much energy and hardly swim with the group, gliding around occasionally. I fed the tank today for the first time and they all ate except of the big three who did not seem to have the enrgy to move towards the food.

How can i make them active again? because if this continues they will die within a day or two like the one today. Any meds or salt i have to add? meth blue? raising the temperature?