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Thread: To Bio-Ball or not to Bio-Ball

  1. #16
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    Default Re: To Bio-Ball or not to Bio-Ball

    I would add a few of the bio-balls back to the sump. You probably knocked down your BB population a bit too much and it needs a little time to recover.

  2. #17
    Registered Member Phillydubs's Avatar
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    Default Re: To Bio-Ball or not to Bio-Ball

    Gators, unfortunately thats not an option, I just tossed them, even if i had them, this was last thursday and the BB would be dead out of water anywhow...

  3. #18
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    Default Re: To Bio-Ball or not to Bio-Ball

    Phil its possible you had an ammonia spike already and the value you see now is the downside of the spike. That might explain why your fish are off. If thats the case you may see a nitrite spike soon. Id add some salt incase..1 tablespoon per 10 gal should work..

    Other than that...lots of waterchanges and some use prime if you dont already.

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  4. #19
    Registered Member Phillydubs's Avatar
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    Default Re: To Bio-Ball or not to Bio-Ball

    Thank you for the response Al. Unfortunately, I think you are spot on and I am bummed. I did this all Thursday. Friday and the weekend were so busy, I really paid the tank no mind. Then I noticed things were a tad off come Monday or so. I bet it did spike higher over the weekend.

    I've also had a heavy hand of late feeding and I need to scale back because that can't be helping with the ammonia build up.

    I did another big WC last night, I am going to test the water now. I use prime already with my changes and was told adding some extra would be good to lock up the ammonia. Last time I used salt, I felt like my fish reacted poorly from it and I am hesitant to try again. I may wait another day or two to go that route and keep up with the big changes.

    Are there any other things I should be looking for or worried about. Ill effects to the fish??

    I was told that there is only so much BB that can live in a tank, so if you have 1 sponge or ten, the # will be the same. However, if you have more surfaces for them to grow and live and then remove those, therefore cutting the BB down, the rest of those surfaces need to now build back up...? correct?

    So if you have say a total of 100bb possible (just for #'s sake) and you have 10 sponges and 10 parts of the BB are on each sponge, but one sponge would hold all 100. By removing say 5 sponges, now you are down to 50 parts BB and those 5 remaining surfaces need to regain the 50 that were lost...

    Sorry if this sounds jumbled as f but just trying to make sure I get it.... I guess next time or moving forward, less is more and slow is best with filters, I should have rinsed the bio balls in tank water sucked the muck up and put them back, then I should have removed a handful of balls with each water change, to slowly make the progression. My moves were too swift and fast causing my current issue.

  5. #20
    Registered Member Phillydubs's Avatar
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    Default Re: To Bio-Ball or not to Bio-Ball

    5.0 PPM Nitrate
    a hint of something in the amonia but pretty much a yellow 0 reading...

    I added another cap of prime just to combat that. Def much lower than yesterday, the one fish still seems a tad off...

    Anyone care to chime in with what an amonia spike can or will possibly due to the fish, all I am seeing is the disinterest in food, color looks amazing breathing is fine, gills seems fine

  6. #21
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    Default Re: To Bio-Ball or not to Bio-Ball

    When I transferred from my 55 to my 90 last year, despite using everything from the old tank, my BB died out and I had to re-cycle. My discus were fine, but the cards and hatchets got ich. Plenty of prime, WC's, and some salt later and everything was fine. My discus were about 3-3.5 inches or so back then and they seemed fine.

  7. #22
    Registered Member Phillydubs's Avatar
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    Default Re: To Bio-Ball or not to Bio-Ball

    Did any stop eating for a bit?

    I have been able to entice with blood worms so far but thats about it...

  8. #23
    Registered Member Phillydubs's Avatar
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    Default Re: To Bio-Ball or not to Bio-Ball

    I may need to take things a step further here, but I really do not know what to do or treat for. The one fish is still barely eating if at all, today he picked up and spit the blood worms...

    Color seems fine, breathing fine, hangs with the group but to the back, seems a bit standoffish... One other one seems spotty with its appetite. I know the obvious cause was my hurting the BB and removing too much filter media. What could be the issue once the amonia rises, i know sometimes gill burns and things like that.

    I have done a WC every day all week, except yesterday. I was planning another in a few hrs...

    Any help would be great thanks

  9. #24
    Silver Member Willie's Avatar
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    Default Re: To Bio-Ball or not to Bio-Ball

    Quote Originally Posted by Phillydubs View Post
    ...I was told that there is only so much BB that can live in a tank, so if you have 1 sponge or ten, the # will be the same. However, if you have more surfaces for them to grow and live and then remove those, therefore cutting the BB down, the rest of those surfaces need to now build back up...? correct?

    So if you have say a total of 100bb possible (just for #'s sake) and you have 10 sponges and 10 parts of the BB are on each sponge, but one sponge would hold all 100. By removing say 5 sponges, now you are down to 50 parts BB and those 5 remaining surfaces need to regain the 50 that were lost...
    Hope things are working out better for you at this point, Philly. Just keep up the water changes and measure nitrite. When nitrite hits 0, you have a functional nitrogen cycle. Any value above 0 means that the cycling process is not complete.

    What someone may have told you about bacterial populations is not correct. The bacterial population is your tank depends on the level of ammonia the fish gives off. If you had twice as many fish, the tank can support twice as many bacteria. When you do a big W/C, the bacteria does not die. It just goes dormant and will recover if ammonia levels go up. Most of our tanks have slightly less than optimal bacteria. I know because every extra set of sponge filters I add to my tanks made the water just a little bit cleaner. I have a dedicated pleco where I keep extra seeded sponges. If I lose a cycle, then I just move in an extra sponge. It'll take the water less than 12 hours to stabilize.

    Good luck, Willie
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  10. #25
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    Default Re: To Bio-Ball or not to Bio-Ball

    Mine ate just fine. Even with high ammonia and nitrite readings. It was just the tetras and hatchets that seemed sluggish and ended up with ich. I just kept doing water changes and prime until the tank recycled. I also added some of the BB in a bottle once, but I don't think those things do much. However, I was panicking and it made me feel better. Once the tank cycled then I put in the salt to treat the ich on the tetras, which cleared up all but 2 fish. Which I then did a super ich cure/salt bath and they were fine. I feel for you, I know that panicky feeling. But it just takes time to cycle the tank. Good luck!

  11. #26
    Registered Member Phillydubs's Avatar
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    Default Re: To Bio-Ball or not to Bio-Ball

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie View Post
    Hope things are working out better for you at this point, Philly. Just keep up the water changes and measure nitrite. When nitrite hits 0, you have a functional nitrogen cycle. Any value above 0 means that the cycling process is not complete.

    What someone may have told you about bacterial populations is not correct. The bacterial population is your tank depends on the level of ammonia the fish gives off. If you had twice as many fish, the tank can support twice as many bacteria. When you do a big W/C, the bacteria does not die. It just goes dormant and will recover if ammonia levels go up. Most of our tanks have slightly less than optimal bacteria. I know because every extra set of sponge filters I add to my tanks made the water just a little bit cleaner. I have a dedicated pleco where I keep extra seeded sponges. If I lose a cycle, then I just move in an extra sponge. It'll take the water less than 12 hours to stabilize.

    Good luck, Willie
    Willie,

    Thanks for the help. I don't think the cycle was ever off much, at least not that I was able to measure. As Al suggested, the tank could have spiked when I wasn't aware or around to test it. Once I started testing, I was showing low levels of ammonia. I never had any nitrite readings and my nitrate never got above 10ppm.

    Thanks for the bacterial explanation as well.

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