Heresy

[Tomaquar]

Ok so this is going to upset many discus owners so please take breath and remind yourself that there is no water in the tank yet.

I moved recently and had to get rid of my reef. It took years to build and I loved it but am thinking of trying something new.

It's a seventy gallon with a larger canister filled with lava rock and has a large hang for a changeable filter. This set up plus a lot of live rock (have lava chunks for this one) kept my reef pristine and I did water changes one every six month.

It was bare bottom so never any waste left.

Are Discus more sensitive than corals? Has anyone tried this with discus ??

Thanks

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Tomaquar and welcome to Simply. Are you asking if a water change every six months is doable for discus? If so please allow me to say that discus create a huge bio-load in a tank and consume over time the minerals in the water and create lots of nitrates. Discus do not do well with high nitrates.

Can you tell me about the research you have done on discus and their care? If none this is a great place to start.
Pat

[Tomaquar]

Thanks for the question . No I wasn't thinking of as infrequently as the reef. I had a very low bio load.

The point of the poorly worded question was if I heavily stock the tank to process nitrate how would that affect the frequency of water changes. Glad u told me that discuss have a high bio load. Do u know if it is as high as koi? I'm assuming discuss are more sensitive than koi but have used a similar strategy of tons of filtration with lava rock for them.

[Tomaquar]

Should read "heavily stock the tank with lava rock"

[Second Hand Pat]

No clue on the comparison of discus to Koi. Stocking the tank with lava rock is not a good idea with discus. Generally any beneficial bacteria are maintained in a filter (like a sponge filter, canister, sump etc). Discus are a large fish which can be prone to being spooky under some conditions. They would tear themselves up on the rocks.
Pat

[Tomaquar]

Thanks so much for the info on lava rock. Had not considered them hurting themselves. Does drift wood do a good job of oxidizing nitrates ?

I'm a methodical, patient fish keeper. However I'm fairly lazy and prefer meticulous planning over lots of work.

With a heavy duty canister I'm planning on letting the gold fish have it for six weeks. Then plant Java fern , Java moss and Anubis with Cardinal tetras for 4 months before trying discus.

If well planted , well filtered and fully mature is once a week change unreasonable.

[jmf3460]

OP, read your original post, took a breath, and now realize you are trying an experiment. It seems as if you are trying to create a tank that requires little water change regimen. I think you have great chances for success, just not with discus. Have you considered any other large freshwater fish that could be your centerpiece and that do not require the water change routine that discus require? I would think that you will want to have success with your experiment, why not just get some expensive fancy goldfish for six weeks, then let them keep the tank forever??

[White Worm]

You should probably do yourself a big favor... Start with a bare bottom tank with maybe some driftwood, a hang on filter and a sponge filter with plenty of air. Purchase some quality discus from a reputable seller here on simply and ask that person for some established media to start your tank. Instead of being lazy, set up a solid water change system that is very little work. Use pumps, timers, controllers and PVC to make your life easier. Water changes can be almost automatic these days with very little effort even though I think that is part of the journey of getting to know your fish. Otherwise, you are trying to re-invent the wheel and setting yourself up for failure and disappointment with discus. We have all been where you are and made the mistakes for you.

[gators111]

I agree. I've tried several different techniques in the past when it comes to denitrification in order to keep water change frequency down. At best, you can go about a week with a non-planted, average stocked tank. Deep sand beds, vodka dosing, etc. just don't seem to work in freshwater like they do with reefs. Purigen reactors and low pH can help some, but really only WC's do the trick. Of course, what you feed and how much can have a big impact too. If you're looking for a low physical maintenance setup, I'd look into an auto water change system.

[Tomaquar]

Thanks so much for the input everyone.

I've lpoked into some auto change systems . Now I want to make sure I have an adequate one that isn't too intrusive.

If I have three in the 55 gal what is a reasonable schedule and amount to change?

[Larry Bugg]

You really need to do some basic research on discus. This is a great place to start.....http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...TCH-THIS-VIDEO!

Nitrates is not the only worry with discus. Discus come from areas in the Amazon with low PH. This low ph is not an environment that harmful bacteria and other pathogens can thrive in. Due to this, discus have a low immunity to many of these. In our aquariums we are generally at a higher ph and with the warm water required our tanks are great breeding grounds for these bacteria. The bacterial starts growing quickly. The best way to combat these is siphoning after feedings to remove left over food and detritus and water changes. How often you need to change water also depends on what age/size discus you are starting with. Young discus are much more susceptible than adults and require more water changes.

[Willie]

I've considered raising discus to be the complete opposite of reef tanks.

Reefs are a study in restraint. Anything you put in, you've got to figure how to get it out or algae will take over. In contrast, discus tanks are like pig stys. Dump in a huge amount of food like slopping pigs, then hose it out with a huge water change. Then do it again and your discus will grow like swine!

Reef tanks are filled with expensive instrumentation and all sort of additives to maintain a particular set of water conditions. Discus tanks have a sponge and a heater. They don't even need lights. You just add water and all the money goes for fish.

No, I would not recommend your approach.

Willie

[Tomaquar]

Thanks Willie. You crystallize that beautifully.

I'm debating on taking on this whole new challenge. At this point I'm looking at auto water change equipment. If I can find a set up that isn't an eyesore I think I'll do it.

Any input on the volume the apparatus should handle.

[Willie]

My rule is to have 1 gallon of water storage available for every gallon you need to change. In my fish room set up, I have double racks. The top rack has all my fish tanks. The bottom rack are old tanks I use for water storage. Every morning, I drain the top tanks and fill them with treated water from the bottom tanks. Then I fill the bottom tanks with tap water and let it warm and aerate until the next day. So essentially I am raising fish in half the tankage available in that room.

In my case, it's 100% water changes every day. But then, I'm OCD...

Willie

[Hart24601]

I had great experience with a semi-auto W/C system on growouts to about 4" and then using a drip system when I moved them into a display tank. When growing out I fed them way to much for a drip to handle, but they slowed down the eating around 4". I have to use RO/DI water here in Iowa though because our tap water is pretty nasty.

The growout tank only took me maybe 30 seconds to change 90% of the water at least once daily if not twice daily and the tank auto refilled. The drip system I don't really have to do any work at all except feed the tank a few times a day.