Culled my first two fish: others seem happier

[jmf3460]

This weekend I culled my first two discus fish. It has been a long time coming, they've needed to be culled for several months now. Sadly I think the majority of the fault for their falling behind is mine for using carbon in my filters the entire length of their lives since purchase. (this is a debatable subject so I am not stating facts) I just know that about 6-8 months ago I started noticing pits on the faces of my discus, two in particular. I went through 3 rounds of metro with no aid. Then I started reading about the use of active carbon and how it strips the water column of essential nutrients/minerals that discus need. The lack of these essential nutrients/minerals can lead to a mineral deficiency over time, exhibited through pits in the head and along the lateral line. So I stopped using carbon, like one day I just started using different filter cartridges in my HOB that did not contain carbon and started dosing calcium at Al's advice. I noticed a difference immediately. A week later I had my first spawn ever (coincidence or not??), then the pits on my fish started getting better. Fast forward about 2-3 months since stopping carbon and I've had three spawns and my fish look so good.

I had two fish that had fallen way behind over the years of carbon use, they seemed to be effected more than the others. I thought when I stopped using carbon and started dosing calcium that they would improve but the did not. It was a tough decision because they still ate and acted fine but were just really dark, skinny and terrible looking. So Saturday I culled, it wasn't easy but I did it. I chose to go the "slam" route. I lifted the fish high above my head and slammed it down on the cement of my sidewalk, both fish were dead upon impact and I am certain they didn't suffer at all.

Fast forward to my pictures today, the remaining 4 fish seem relieved (if that can even be a feeling that discus have). Their coloring seems better and they seem more active than they have in probably an entire year, showing no bar and begging for food like back in the good ol days. I really just wanted to post this to share my experience of the use of active carbon and my experience of my first culling. It was hard, and I put it off a long time, but my other fish seem better for having the two "bad eggs" gone. SIP little fishies. Here are some pictures of my 4 remaining discus this morning. Unfortunately I think I am now left with one female and 3 males. So the search is on for two more discus (wild of course) to fill the place of the ones I've culled. Also, needless to say I've stopped using active carbon in not only my discus tank, but all my tanks.

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[Second Hand Pat]

I know that was tough Jacklyn and think the method you used was the best one. It is the one I use. Glad to hear the group is doing well.
Pat

[jmf3460]

I know that was tough Jacklyn and think the method you used was the best one. It is the one I use. Glad to hear the group is doing well.
Pat

Thanks Pat, it was really tough, I am a big animal lover, I even save inch worms from the cattle troughs when they fall in and are drowning. The two on the far right in the second to last picture are the two that have paired up on the cone last week. I wish she would pick the big guy in the back of those last two pictures, with the pronounced forehead but she seems pretty loyal to the same male. Even this morning as I was snapping these pictures she was busy around the cone and was shaking at him to come hang out with her at the cone. Of all these 4 fish, the female is by far the nicest fish I have. Now I am looking for 2 new wilds to fill the void of the two I've culled.

[dillct]

When metro fails, don't most turn to lavamisole when they exhibity that dark/skinny look? Not questioning what you did, but wondering what you'd do if the other 4 start exhibiting similar symptoms in the near future.

[jmf3460]

When metro fails, don't most turn to lavamisole when they exhibity that dark/skinny look? Not questioning what you did, but wondering what you'd do if the other 4 start exhibiting similar symptoms in the near future.

Thanks DillCt, you are right the levamisole is a good medication if internal parasites/worms are suspected. But I did not suspect this, I really don't think hex was the issue either but I put them through the metro treatment since I had that on hand and wanted to rule hex out before changing my whole approach to fish keeping.

[bluelagoon]

Nice looking set up for wild discus.I think you made the right choice to remove the activated carbon;after all you do have wood and looks nicer with the tannin appearance for wilds,but that's just a matter of my opinion.I too believe that activated carbon long term use can cause HITH.It tends to happen with other fish like severums.

[jmf3460]

Nice looking set up for wild discus.I think you made the right choice to remove the activated carbon;after all you do have wood and looks nicer with the tannin appearance for wilds,but that's just a matter of my opinion.I too believe that activated carbon long term use can cause HITH.It tends to happen with other fish like severums.

Thanks Mervin

[Debow]

I always hate the day that you have to cull a fish. I had to cull my eel of 5 years due to an extreme heater burn and it broke my heart to do so, likewise with discus... I think it is important to talk about successes and failures so we all learn from both. I am glad to hear that the fish are doing well now and that you have good breeding activity. I myself have been battling with a snakeskin who sounds just like your other 2 fish, hoping I can turn him around.

[rickztahone]

This is a tough decision but one that may be better in the long run. However, I would be remiss if I did not point out the fact that whenever I have had 4 discus in a group, they start exhibiting really bad behavioral problems.

That might not be the issue now, but keep a close eye on the aggression levels now that the 2 runts of the litter are no longer there.

They will (the dominant ones) usually find the next target in line.

[jmf3460]

This is a tough decision but one that may be better in the long run. However, I would be remiss if I did not point out the fact that whenever I have had 4 discus in a group, they start exhibiting really bad behavioral problems.

That might not be the issue now, but keep a close eye on the aggression levels now that the 2 runts of the litter are no longer there.

They will (the dominant ones) usually find the next target in line.

OH yes ricardo I am well aware and am already shopping for two new fish to replace the culled ones. Been in touch with john and mark already.

[two utes]

Must have been a very hard thing to do Jacklyn. The remaining 4 look really good, and l can't wait to see the new additions

[Filip]

Must have been a relief for you Jacklyn once you've finished their oredeal.I can relate that It can be very exhausting watching a sick discus deteriorating over a long period.
I hope that you'll be able to find even better wilds than the ones you've lost .

[Jenene]

This was a really informative post Jacklyn, thank you for putting it out there.

I had purchased some Red Sea carbon very early on and had it in my tank for about a week before I started reading up on the effects of it. Although the one I had read earlier on was that if fully saturated would release the toxins back into the water. Either way you have proven that carbon and discus do not mix. Hopefully there are discus keepers all over the world that are yanking their carbon as we write these posts.

Culling must have been extremely difficult. My stomach turned as I read your post but I know it was undoubtedly necessary. I know we all will have to face that task for one reason or another some day. I hope I can find the strength that you had. I give you a ton of credit, not only for doing it but sharing the experience with us.

Thank you for putting this out there to help others and most likely save them and their discus from going down the same dark road. Good luck for the hunt on the two new wilds. Keep us posted on the progress.

[jmf3460]

This was a really informative post Jacklyn, thank you for putting it out there.
I had purchased some Red Sea carbon very early on and had it in my tank for about a week before I started reading up on the effects of it. Although the one I had read earlier on was that if fully saturated would release the toxins back into the water. Either way you have proven that carbon and discus do not mix. Hopefully there are discus keepers all over the world that are yanking their carbon as we write these posts.
Culling must have been extremely difficult. My stomach turned as I read your post but I know it was undoubtedly necessary. I know we all will have to face that task for one reason or another some day. I hope I can find the strength that you had. I give you a ton of credit, not only for doing it but sharing the experience with us.
Thank you for putting this out there to help others and most likely save them and their discus from going down the same dark road. Good luck for the hunt on the two new wilds. Keep us posted on the progress.

Jenene thank you so much for saying this. This confirms that I did the right thing in posting. I even waited 2 days to post because I was so worried that people would criticize my decision and I would end up feeling even worse for doing it. You are right that this thread is meant for people to learn from and to grow from which is what I have done. thanks again for this lengthy and encouraging response

Must have been a very hard thing to do Jacklyn. The remaining 4 look really good, and l can't wait to see the new additions

Thanks Joe, ordering today for arrival tomorrow.

Must have been a relief for you Jacklyn once you've finished their oredeal.I can relate that It can be very exhausting watching a sick discus deteriorating over a long period.
I hope that you'll be able to find even better wilds than the ones you've lost .

Filip I appreciate the kind words, it is hard to do the ethical things we have to do in this hobby sometimes.

[pitdogg2]

it's very tough to do Jacklyn but it is a necessity at times. I call the method the high speed stop. I must be very lucky I have used carbon (Marineland, Dr. Foster and Smith pelleted and granule's and back in the day Second nature). I have never had carbon affect fish the way mentioned here. I did have a fish get pits in the face I attributed to stray voltage in the tank. I never felt it until I had a cut on my hand and the cut tingled. I found the culprit removed it. Since that time I have always used Titanium ground probe's like this one here.

https://www.marinedepot.com/Titanium...FRm4wAodsdgJ1g

I was told by a saltwater keeper that stray voltage has the affect that you mentioned on certain fish species as well as some fish.

I have never had the problem again after using these in all my aquariums.

Just a thought might be truth to both sides of this.