Change in Appetite, Behavior

[DiscusMark]

I have a 55-gallon tank with 7 juvenile Stendkers. They were 3" when I purchased them 3 months ago, and are now at about 4-4.5" apiece, much rounder, and much more colorful. The tank has pool filter sand, a few potted plants, more than adequate filtration (fluval 406 canister + sponge filter), and stable parameters (Ammonia 0, Nitrites 0, Nitrate ~ 20, Ph 7.8. I change 50-60% of the water every other day, and age the water for 24 hrs. I've been feeding them a variety of foods daily (BH mix, frozen bloodworms, frozen brine shrimp, Sera granules). They have always eaten rapidly, happy to feed from my hands, etc. Everything has been great.

In the last week, though, I've noticed that the fish all are eating more slowly, and a few are hardly eating at all. They are also tending to stay near the bottom of the tank, and appear to have abandoned their previous preferences in terms of territory and preferred mates. (For the previous month or so, they tended to stay in predictable parts of the tanks, defend their territories, and two paired off and laid eggs.) Now, though, there doesn't seem to be any particular order to there whereabouts and preferences, aside from the tendency to stay near the bottom of the tank. They all continue to look well--bright colors, no clamped fins, etc--and nothing on the maintenance end or in terms of the water parameters has changed.

Any thoughts?

Could this possibly just be continuing adjustment, in terms of vying for rank as they age?

I've read the forum a great deal, and was wondering whether my pool filter sand was collecting nasties. Today I went ahead and removed about half of it (by syphoning it into a bucket), but it is extremely clean--even when I agitated the bucket after removing it--so I'm doubting that this is the issue.

[Ryan925]

I have a 55-gallon tank with 7 juvenile Stendkers. They were 3" when I purchased them 3 months ago, and are now at about 4-4.5" apiece, much rounder, and much more colorful. The tank has pool filter sand, a few potted plants, more than adequate filtration (fluval 406 canister + sponge filter), and stable parameters (Ammonia 0, Nitrites 0, Nitrate ~ 20, Ph 7.8. I change 50-60% of the water every other day, and age the water for 24 hrs. I've been feeding them a variety of foods daily (BH mix, frozen bloodworms, frozen brine shrimp, Sera granules). They have always eaten rapidly, happy to feed from my hands, etc. Everything has been great.

In the last week, though, I've noticed that the fish all are eating more slowly, and a few are hardly eating at all. They are also tending to stay near the bottom of the tank, and appear to have abandoned their previous preferences in terms of territory and preferred mates. (For the previous month or so, they tended to stay in predictable parts of the tanks, defend their territories, and two paired off and laid eggs.) Now, though, there doesn't seem to be any particular order to there whereabouts and preferences, aside from the tendency to stay near the bottom of the tank. They all continue to look well--bright colors, no clamped fins, etc--and nothing on the maintenance end or in terms of the water parameters has changed.

Any thoughts?

Could this possibly just be continuing adjustment, in terms of vying for rank as they age?

I've read the forum a great deal, and was wondering whether my pool filter sand was collecting nasties. Today I went ahead and removed about half of it (by syphoning it into a bucket), but it is extremely clean--even when I agitated the bucket after removing it--so I'm doubting that this is the issue.

20 nitrate is a bit on the high side l. Typically you want 10 or less. I would try some daily wcs and see if the behavior improves. That's always a good place to start. Fresh water is a cure to many things

[NEangler]

I agree with Ryan with the daily wc's. Maybe fast the tank for a few days & keep doing daily wc's. Just concentrate on water quality and it should get their appetites flying again. Ridding the rest of the sand may help greatly as well. When i had sand it looked great, but smelled nasty. Also check the params of your tap. Sometimes our tap can be inconsistent

[ssevasta]

I also agree with the previous two posters but I'd also like to add that it usually takes my 65 gallon water drum less than 12 hours to reach 85 degrees so daily water changes aren't an issue for me.

[Dam777]

Have you noticed any changes in their poop?

[DiscusMark]

Thanks for the suggestions. No changes in the poop, other than that there's now very little of it since they're eating much less. Started the daily water changes a day before my original post, since I figured that would be the best bet as well, but haven't really seen any change yet. My tap water has changed slightly this summer, but I don't think that's the issue, as the behavior change is much more recent, and I think I've remedied the tap change. (The tap ph had been 9, which has increased to 9.4. It used to come down to 7.8 with agitation and aging, and now it's coming down to 8.4 or so. To remedy that, I've added a bit of API Ph Down to the aging barrel and let it stabilize before adding to the tank at a Ph of 8. And the tank itself has remained stable at 7.8 all along.)

[ssevasta]

Thanks for the suggestions. No changes in the poop, other than that there's now very little of it since they're eating much less. Started the daily water changes a day before my original post, since I figured that would be the best bet as well, but haven't really seen any change yet. My tap water has changed slightly this summer, but I don't think that's the issue, as the behavior change is much more recent, and I think I've remedied the tap change. (The tap ph had been 9, which has increased to 9.4. It used to come down to 7.8 with agitation and aging, and now it's coming down to 8.4 or so. To remedy that, I've added a bit of API Ph Down to the aging barrel and let it stabilize before adding to the tank at a Ph of 8. And the tank itself has remained stable at 7.8 all along.)

Please be extremely careful with the ph down. Your water has buffers in it which will cause it to briefly drop and then bounce right back to where it was, this is extremely stressful on fish and can easily be fatal. Honestly I suggest you stop using it because the discus will adapt to a steady ph. Have you tried an Epsom salts treatment with increased heat yet?

[DiscusMark]

Please be extremely careful with the ph down. Your water has buffers in it which will cause it to briefly drop and then bounce right back to where it was, this is extremely stressful on fish and can easily be fatal. Honestly I suggest you stop using it because the discus will adapt to a steady ph. Have you tried an Epsom salts treatment with increased heat yet?

Thanks for the feedback. I've increased the heat, but didn't add epsom salts because the discus don't appear to be bloated or constipated. (Their bellies are quite flat, more so than the slight bulge they used to get after eating.)

I know what you're saying about the Ph Down, and did much to-ing and fro-ing before starting to use it about two months ago. What I'm doing is adding it when I start the water aging in the aging barrel, which goes for about 24 hours. You are certainly correct about the brief drop and bounce, but that is taking place in the aging barrel: I'm making sure not to add the water to the tank until long after the drop and bounce has taken place. Like I said, the tank Ph has been steady. (I'd considered not using the Ph Down at all, but was worried that that would leave me with a tank Ph in the 8.6 range, which seemed problematic. Any thoughts on that number? Stendkers are bred to tolerate a higher Ph, but from what I've read it seems that going much above 8 is best avoided.)

[ssevasta]

Thanks for the feedback. I've increased the heat, but didn't add epsom salts because the discus don't appear to be bloated or constipated. (Their bellies are quite flat, more so than the slight bulge they used to get after eating.)

I know what you're saying about the Ph Down, and did much to-ing and fro-ing before starting to use it about two months ago. What I'm doing is adding it when I start the water aging in the aging barrel, which goes for about 24 hours. You are certainly correct about the brief drop and bounce, but that is taking place in the aging barrel: I'm making sure not to add the water to the tank until long after the drop and bounce has taken place. Like I said, the tank Ph has been steady. (I'd considered not using the Ph Down at all, but was worried that that would leave me with a tank Ph in the 8.6 range, which seemed problematic. Any thoughts on that number? Stendkers are bred to tolerate a higher Ph, but from what I've read it seems that going much above 8 is best avoided.)

Honestly with a ph below 9 I wouldn't be too concerned. I really don't think that's the issue at hand. I would give the salt a shot it can't hurt to try and it's one of the few things that won't stress your fish at all.

[DiscusMark]

Honestly with a ph below 9 I wouldn't be too concerned. I really don't think that's the issue at hand. I would give the salt a shot it can't hurt to try and it's one of the few things that won't stress your fish at all.

Thanks--I appreciate the feedback!

[Filip]

Rule out Water quality at first , with a better overall maintenance - filters , sand , WCs Etc.
Other things to watch is occasional scratching , breathing fast / more frequent gill plate moves , clamped fin on occasions , change in poop etc.

[DiscusMark]

Update: After a week of daily WCs without change, I decided to try PraziPro. It did the trick almost immediately. Within an hour or so, the fish were all swimming around and jockeying for position, and are now eating like pigs again. Not sure what the original cause of the issue was, but if it was water quality related (slightly high nitrates at 20), I'm hoping that the tank will be a bit easier to keep clean now, as I've removed nearly all the substrate, save for a very thin layer to cover the glass.

Thanks everyone for the input--much appreciated.

[ssevasta]

Update: After a week of daily WCs without change, I decided to try PraziPro. It did the trick almost immediately. Within an hour or so, the fish were all swimming around and jockeying for position, and are now eating like pigs again. Not sure what the original cause of the issue was, but if it was water quality related (slightly high nitrates at 20), I'm hoping that the tank will be a bit easier to keep clean now, as I've removed nearly all the substrate, save for a very thin layer to cover the glass.

Thanks everyone for the input--much appreciated.

That's awesome I'm happy to hear they're improving.

[Ryan925]

Update: After a week of daily WCs without change, I decided to try PraziPro. It did the trick almost immediately. Within an hour or so, the fish were all swimming around and jockeying for position, and are now eating like pigs again. Not sure what the original cause of the issue was, but if it was water quality related (slightly high nitrates at 20), I'm hoping that the tank will be a bit easier to keep clean now, as I've removed nearly all the substrate, save for a very thin layer to cover the glass.

Thanks everyone for the input--much appreciated.

Great to hear. Sounds like they were slightly irritated by something causing the lack of appetite. Seems the prazipro remedied whatever was bothering them. Good news

[eros111]

Probably a few Gill Flukes too many that the Prazi has taken care of maybe?