Considering Discus - Help Me Get Into The Discus Game (Newbie Questions)

[adrian31@outlook.com]

From my reading on the topic I understand that water PH does indeed have an effect on their health and growth. Discus in the wild live in low PH water which is also very clean/fresh as they have a mind-boggling supply of clean water (google that). Because of this they have a low tolerance when brought into higher PH water which cultivates greater number of non-native pathogens. I think one important thing to consider is that Discus aren't selectively bred to be robust/tolerant to disease, but for their aesthetic appeal, else they would look very different these days.

[zhuls1]

Also, anyone heard of or used the hydra stream filter? Do they work very well or just a gimmick?

[zhuls1]

I undestand that the water where they come from is pristine, but what I was trying to find out is what it is in the water that reduces growth rates and how it reduces growth rates. But I do appreciate your input.

[zhuls1]

If I was to maintain a lower PH, Would that mean I wouldn't have to do as many water changes?

[bluelagoon]

Think of it as flushing the toilet and your discus will be fine.Keep it simple and change lots of water.Slim coats,feces and urine,other wastes,the list goes on.

[Ryan925]

If I was to maintain a lower PH, Would that mean I wouldn't have to do as many water changes?

Many people come here, prior getting to discus, trying to find a way to not do water changes and have success. Many of them fail. To have success you need to be committed and have the understanding that the bottom line is they need lots of clean fresh water. If there was a way to not do so many water changes it would be well documented and widely used. We don't change lots of water because we enjoy it. Simply it's a necessity.

If you want to do as few water changes as possible then get a really large tank and have it greatly understocked with adult discus. Adult discus don't require as much feeding or wcs but nonetheless they still need clean water.

[adrian31@outlook.com]

When I first registered here not too long ago I too had questions about water changes and factors that limit Discus' growth and some members were nice enough to go into some detailed explanations. Little did I know that the list of people coming before me asking these same questions was long. Once I realized that I found quite a few past threads here on these topics. This site has a wealth of information.

[adrian31@outlook.com]

I undestand that the water where they come from is pristine, but what I was trying to find out is what it is in the water that reduces growth rates and how it reduces growth rates. But I do appreciate your input.

Hi Zac,
I don't know the answer to that myself. But I compare it to any other animal that grows up in less than optimal conditions and is more or less 'sick' for half its life will not grow to it's full potential. When you compare this to Discus growing up in a maxed tank with substrate which receives 1 or 2 WC per week, they may survive but if you could somehow measure their actual health they'd be categorized as mildy 'sick' during that period of time.

[zhuls1]

I was just asking because I have met a few people who had sucess keeping discus with weekly waterchanges using ro and low PH. And many of them recommend that I use a RO filter.

[White Worm]

Yes, there is a benefit to lower pH and using some RO but when you talk about successful people, it probably depends on their initial source of water (quality), stocking levels, filtering, size of tank, etc. You can't base it off of just hearing that someone did well with RO water and a lower pH. Many also chase pH levels with chemicals which is a bad idea. There are so many factors that effect health in any animal. They are in a glass box of water swimming in their own waste...... Hop in a jacuzzi with RO water and go #1 and #2 for a couple days. I'll bet you want to change the water rather quickly.

[adrian31@outlook.com]

I was just asking because I have met a few people who had sucess keeping discus with weekly waterchanges using ro and low PH. And many of them recommend that I use a RO filter.

I started with my first batch of Discus a little over a year ago and I can now say it takes longer than a year to truly learn about their care. Experience is necessary. You could certainly try that but if you're just starting off my advice would be to get your feet wet; learn all the Discus-keeping rules and follow them as best you can. After you have had success then you can start experimenting and modifying those rules.

[zhuls1]

I think I finally found something that makes sense as to why discus require lots of water changes. "The water temp is 28-31 ph 4.2 to 6 generally, why you ask do we run our pH at 6.4-6.5 because ammonia at pH of 6.4 is actually the less lethal form ammonium and also in nature the mineral content is much lower" (I found this on livingreef aquariums website). This is finally something I can understand and believe. What is everyone elses thoughts on this?

[adrian31@outlook.com]

I think I finally found something that makes sense as to why discus require lots of water changes. "The water temp is 28-31 ph 4.2 to 6 generally, why you ask do we run our pH at 6.4-6.5 because ammonia at pH of 6.4 is actually the less lethal form ammonium and also in nature the mineral content is much lower" (I found this on livingreef aquariums website). This is finally something I can understand and believe. What is everyone elses thoughts on this?

Make sense to me, but just so you know my water PH is 6.8 out of tap and 6.4 after 24hrs, I keep my water at 83F, and I still need to do at least 50% WC when my tank is maxed and feeding >/= 2x per day.

[White Worm]

I think you have it backwards. Ammonium is converted to ammonia at higher pH levels (Alkaline) which is toxic to fish. Ammonia is converted to ammonium at lower pH levels which is less harmful to fish (Acidic). Discus are found in waters with pH 4.0-7.0. Those waters are soft and virtually free of iron, sodium, magnesium and calcium. That's why people like to use RO filtering because it removes salt, fluoride, lead, manganese, iron, and calcium from tap water. Problem is that it is non-selective and also removes beneficial minerals that can be added back in manually. For your water changes, you would want to use 80% RO / 20% Tap water and add back the beneficial minerals using something like RO right. People are better off changing 100% or doing multiple (4-5) 30% changes a day with aged (aerated and treated water) so that all toxicity can be removed. Problem with massive water changes is that I think there is very little nitrogen cycle or collection of beneficial bacteria but then again, its not needed with such water turn-over.

[Neptune]

But it's not just an ammonia issue. Ammonia just doesn't remove itself from the water..nothing is created or destroyed only changed.
Ammonia goes somewhere and its nitrite and nitrate. Nitrate is also a limiting factor for potential growth. AHHHH a WC will lower that!
AND one thing very few talk about because most FW folks don't measure it..REDOX.

It's the same REDOX in the current antiOXIDANT craze in humans...How do you get better REDOX levels....nice clean water, and a UV sterilizer helps a lot.