spike in ammo reading

[jim LI]

I have a 46 gallon qt tank, 5 -4 1/2" discus. ammo - 0,, nitrite - 0 , nitrate less than 10. i did a 60% w/c yesterday. i do 3 60% w/cs weekly. today the ammo spiked to over 8.. nitrite - 0, nitrate, >10. I age my water and use safe. what could have caused this huge spike?. the tank had been cycled for over a month.

thanks,
jim

[DJW]

Thats a lot of ammonia. Can you answer a few questions.

How long have the 5 discus been in this tank?
How did you cycle it?
What is the pH of your aged water?
What is the KH of your tap water?
What is the pH in the tank now?
What is the KH of the tank water?

A pH crash could cause that to happen.

[jim LI]

sorry, i know i needed to add more info. the tank has sand substrate. has been established for over 6 months. i had 3 fish with hex from my display tank , and have been treating with metro, 2 x a day, twice the dosage. i have an AC 110 and eheim 2215 filters with a purigen reactor. i clean the filter floss and pads every 4 weeks. i did this 3 weeks ago. . i checked my parameters last week, as mentioned above. ph has been steady 7.6..the ammo spike was since my last readings. .i am not thinking it can be a mini cycle, since i hadn't really done and major cleaning. i vac the sand every time i do a w/c. any suggestions will be helpful

thanks

[jim LI]

Dan,
I haven't taken KH reading on my tanks, i had never done that reading. 3 discus have been in the tank over 2 months, from the hex treatment. i added 2 new ones to the tank about a month to reduce the aggression form the other 3. 2 of the 3 i treated for hex have recovered and are behaving normally and eating like pigs. 1 is still a bit shy, but has come to eat very sparingly the last week. there is no sign of hex or white poop in the tank for over a month. if i need to provide any other information, please let me know. i am in a bit of panic mode right now, so i may not be thinking of everything i should tell you. the ph of the aged water and tank water is 7.6... i also increase the temp of the tank to 86 last week, to entice the shy 1 to eat ..

[DJW]

Something has sure stopped the filter from working. If it was a big drop in pH it would only be temporary. I would do a 100% WC with aged water and keep an eye on the ammonia and if ammonia keeps showing up then WCs need to be every day.

What can happen, if your KH is low in a crowded tank, is the pH can fall low enough to stall out the filter, and it can happen pretty fast. The pH can be 7.6 last week and if it drops to 6 the filter stops consuming ammonia and the ammonia accumulates. I'm speculating some here... metro shouldn't hurt the filter bacteria so a pH drop seems like a possible cause.

[jim LI]

Thanks Dan. i will be watching closely and doing daily changes until I see improvement.

[DJW]

Let us know how it goes... curious to know if the filter is wiped out, or if it comes back some.

[jim LI]

i did a 75% w/c and changed all the filter and polishing pads. i didn't touch any course pads, sponges or bacteria media. reading right after w/c

ph - 7.6
ammo - .05
nitrate - 0
nitrate - .5

8 hours later
ph - 7.6
ammo - >.5 , <1
nitrite - 0
nitrate - 0

i will read them again tomorrow morning, but hopefully the crisis has passing.

thanks

[jim LI]

24 hours after last w/c

ph - 7.6
ammo - 2
nitrite - 0
nitrate <5

I think i am now in a full cycle. i bypassed my Purigen reactor, since that was the last thing i added to the tank, just to start eliminating causes.

anyone have any suggestions i can try?

thanks,
jim

[jim LI]

+ bump - I am bumping this because i have strange situation. i still have ammo reading of 1 every day and i am doing 75% w/c every day. but the strange thing is my nitrite are 0, and my nitrates are at 10. i don't understand why i still have ammo reading but 10 nitrates.. can someone enlighten me of what i am missing with these readings?

thanks,
jim

[DJW]

At the moment I got nothing. Are you testing the water before WC, after, or somewhere in between? The best time to do the testing is consistently before WCs.

Check the expiration date on the tests kit, some of the ammonia measurements don't seem right.

Can you test the tap water?

How long ago did you stop the metro, and when you say 2x the dose, how much was that?

[jim LI]

Thanks, Dan. I check the reading just before I do w/cs. The expiration date is 2018, but i use the same test kit for my 2 other tanks. those reading are ok. I stopped using the metro over the weekend,,, the fish that is still out of it is not responding so i figured the meds didn't work. the dosage is 1/4 tsp for every 41 gallons, so i did 1/2 tsp twice a day. i use the same tap water to age as i use for my other tanks, so i can't see it being the tap water. the only thing is the actual aging barrel that is different. i should test that water.

thanks for the suggestions,
jim

[DJW]

The ammonia situation is improving, so the cycle is on its way back.

If I had to take a guess, I'd say something clobbered the ammonia-consuming bacteria while leaving enough of the nitrite-consumers alive to do their thing. They are different bacteria with different vulnerabilities. In other words, half the ammonia the fish are releasing would be processed into nitrite, and you are seeing the other half in your test. Then all the nitrite is being converted to nitrate.

[jim LI]

ok, makes sense..i'll let you know how it turns out in few days.



thanks

[LJSmith]

How long have the 5 discus been in this tank?
How did you cycle it?
What is the pH of your aged water?
What is the KH of your tap water?
What is the pH in the tank now?
What is the KH of the tank water?

I have a very similar situation going on. 5 adult discus in a Barebottom tank. 2 Sponge filters and a Tidal 55 with Purigen and Matrix.

I am doing 80% WC every other day, with a 20% WC while vacuuming on the off days.

Fish have been in since August 21. I moved them in from my 125 including seeded Matrix, and a seeded sponge.

PH is 6.6 - 6.8 aged and out of tap
TDS is 58 out of the tap.

Current tank pH is 6.6
TDS is 80
(all prior to today's WC.)
Temp is 84

Ammonia is 1, nitrites 0, Nitrates 5. This has been consistent since day 2. I have been testing very frequently.

I finally assumed it was the Prime leading to the reading since I was using it to detoxify the ammonia between WC. I also used Seed for the first week. Maybe that clobbered the ammonia eaters??

I also have had a Seachem Ammonia Alert in for a couple weeks that never reads other than yellow. Either the Prime is doing it's job or the low pH is keeping the Ammonia in ionized form.

Fish are healthy, active, and eating, so I have not been worried, but am very curious as to the cause. The tank I took media from gets the same water and is kept at 82 degrees. That tank is heavily planted and has been running for over a year.