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Thread: Advice on recently set up discus aquarium

  1. #1
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    Default Advice on recently set up discus aquarium

    It's been over 10 years since I last had a discus aquarium up and running. I hope you will bear with me and my newbie questions.

    I recently started up an 40 gal hexagonal aquarium with 25 lbs of gravel and several and several plastic plants and a large driftwood, a sponge filter connected to an air stone, and a Marineland HOB filter. I use Pure Flo filter pads and Rox activated carbon in the HOB. I have 12 2" size discus in the aquarium. I will move them into a larger 55 gal hexagonal aquarium once they reach around 4". Aquarium temp hovers around 87F. Water pH is at 7.2, ammonia is steady at 0.0, nitrite is steady at 2.0, and nitrate again steady at 0.0. I do between 25-40% water change every other day. Since nitrite is high, I add Prime to the water during each water change. I also add Stress Zyme to the water each time. Currently I do between 25-40% water change every other day, and clean the gravel every other water change. I feed the discus frozen blood worm 2x a day and dry discus flakes once a day. I also feed them frozen brine shrimps but they don't attack it like they do with frozen blood worms or flakes, so I don't feed them that as often. They are so used to their feeding schedule as if they are on queue, they would hover closer to the surface around the same time each day waiting for food.

    The question I have is should I increase my water change to daily or decrease it? I was told years ago that I should not clean the gravel often because I would remove the beneficial bacteria needed for the nitrification process. Is that true? Or should I clean the grave of uneaten food and fish waste at every water changes? I can't imagined having uneaten food and fish waste left in the gravel is good for them.

    The water pH level in my new home is considerably higher than in my old home, so I've been adding about 1.5 tsp of pH down to each water change to see if I can slowly bring the pH down. I'm doing this again because of what I was told years ago from a guy in Atlanta whom I bought discus back then who mentioned that discus pH needs to be around 6.5 to thrive. My discus seem to be very active and playful, so I don't know if it's necessary for me to try to lower the pH level. What are your thoughts?

    I would appreciate any advice that you folks who are more seasoned and knowledgeable than I am can provide. I will update a photo or video of my aquarium as soon as I get a chance to upload my phone's photo.

    James

  2. #2
    Registered Member sanjay21's Avatar
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    Default Re: Advice on recently set up discus aquarium

    Hi James,

    Welcome back to the hobby With 12 discus(2") in a 40 gallon with gravel, you need to do water changes every day 80%. When you buy discus at 2" size you need to be prepared to maximum water changes and more feedings. I would increase the feedings to 6 times a day. You can include beefheart(not mandatory) and freeze dried black worms - both are very high in protein. It's good to remove the uneaten food, with daily water changes you can siphon that out.
    Regarding the ph I had so many questions myself when I started the hobby. Biggest Key is "Stable PH" I have all my tanks running at 7.8ph and at my previous residence I raised Discus with ph 8.2. Do not bother using PH down chemicals. PH swings is way more dangerous than having a stable ph.


    - Sanjay

  3. #3
    Registered Member White Worm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Advice on recently set up discus aquarium

    40g tank with 25lbs of gravel is a mistake already. Need to be a larger tank with Bare Bottom to grow young discus. The discus will grow quick and you will need some thing larger than a 55g when they do. Gravel catches way too much gunk. I wouldnt mess with the pH since it can bounce back. I think you have a typo (Nitrite 2.0?). High nitrate means you have to do daily large water changes. The filter will build your beneficial bacteria. Blood worms aren't very good for discus and it can be hard to get them off of it once addicted.

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    Default Re: Advice on recently set up discus aquarium

    Sanjay, White Worm, thank you for your prompt reply and suggestions. Yes, it was definitely a typo. Nitrite level is at 2.0 and nitrate is at 0.0. Since I'm using Prime with each water change and it supposed to convert it to non toxic form, is it still recommended to do 80% water change daily? I will include dried black worms in their diet to see if they like it. I'm not a fan of beef hearts. I might also try live brine shrimps. I remembered how much discus my old discus loved chasing them down. I will take your advice to heart when the time comes for me to move them over to the 55 gallon. I might break up the group and have some in the 55 gal and the 40 gal. I do have a 150 g reef aquarium, but my plan is to eventually set that up as a reef aquarium as I used to have many years ago. If I do change my mind, that would be a great tank to hold a large number of discus. Thank you for the suggestion about not messing with pH, I did not think about the effect of it not being stable. I started using pH down a few days ago, but I will stop.

    James

  5. #5
    Registered Member White Worm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Advice on recently set up discus aquarium

    Food - http://www.aquaticsuppliers.com/Free...d-foods_c2.htm

    With a tank that is not cycled, you need to be doing daily large water changes. You have a recipe for disaster brewing.

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    Default Re: Advice on recently set up discus aquarium

    White Worm, thanks for the dried black worm food link. I will increase my water change to daily and see how the nitrite reading progress.

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    Default Re: Advice on recently set up discus aquarium

    Def recommend removing that gravel completely asap. There are posts in this forum on how to do it safely. The sooner u remove it the better, for growth and overall health. Large daily water changes. No ph down - aging and aerating ur water is a good idea, even if ur ph remains stable - have u tested the ph straight from ur tap water and then retested it again later after it is aerated for a day? Dissolved gasses or chemicals added to water can affect the water's ph when they dissipate - if there is a change in ph after tap water has aerated for a day this ph swing could hurt the fish.

    Beneficial bacteria lives on the hard surfaces in ur tank. Cleaning the gravel won't remove BB... but removing the gravel could remove some BB growing on it and put your cycle back a bit - but even then it is still a good idea to remove the gravel because of how filthy it is. Even if u clean it regularly it will still decrease the water quality. That many discus in that size of tank with gravel isn't a good idea, esp with smaller wc and partial cycle...

    The majority of your BB will grow on the surfaces of your bio media in the filter where oxygenated water is constantly flowing over it. Do you have any bio media in your filter? Or just the pads and carbon? I don't use carbon personally, just pads and bio balls.
    Last edited by Kyla; 10-17-2017 at 04:08 PM.

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    Registered Member Phillydubs's Avatar
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    Default Re: Advice on recently set up discus aquarium

    I agree get that gravel out. I'd also plan on a new tank very soon. IMO that's the worst foot print possible for discus.

    I tried before in a 40 gal cube it was not pretty. Where do you live ? Start looking on Craig's list or local stuff like that.

    If you want to be successful it isn't that hard but doing it right from the jump is vital

  9. #9
    Registered Member White Worm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Advice on recently set up discus aquarium

    They would be better off in the 55G now with daily large water changes 70-80% with treated water aged 24 hours. Grow them in it Bare Bottom with HOB filter. Add a couple sponge filters with a nice air source. Find a 75G or larger to transfer them when they grow larger. The extra filters will come in handy for an instant cycle. Once they are larger and become adults, you can then add some nice sand, driftwood and plants for a nice display. Rule of thumb is 1 adult per 10G but you can push it if you have good tank maintenance and clean water.

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    Default Re: Advice on recently set up discus aquarium

    Kyla, I have been doing water changes straight up from the faucet instead of from an aerated reservoir container that I used to have from my old house. During each water change, I add additives to remove chlorine and chloramine from the water. In our new home, although it is larger, there is not a closet nearby that I could store a water tank out of sight. My wife would not be happy that I have a spare water tank in the family room. I will take a sample water straight from the faucet and see what the pH is before and after aeration and go from there. I did not realize having gravel was going to be a problem for the discus. When I had discus years ago, I had them in bare bottom aquarium. I hated the way it looked. It did not seem natural. I will gradually remove some gravel, but leave just enough for aesthetic.

    I currently use an HOB filter that has a bio media wheel with pads and carbons. I also have a large Eheim canister filter that I will use with the 55 gal aquarium once the discus are ready to transfer over.

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    Default Re: Advice on recently set up discus aquarium

    I just completed the water change removing closer to 60% of the water. Because I'm refilling it straight from the tap, I have to keep the heaters on and in the aquarium and as close to the bottom of the aquarium as I can to allow it to warm up the water. I removed about 6 cups of gravel and will continue to do a little at a time with the daily water changes.

    Thanks everyone for your valuable advice.

  12. #12
    Registered Member Ryan925's Avatar
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    Default Re: Advice on recently set up discus aquarium

    Quote Originally Posted by NDI85 View Post
    I just completed the water change removing closer to 60% of the water. Because I'm refilling it straight from the tap, I have to keep the heaters on and in the aquarium and as close to the bottom of the aquarium as I can to allow it to warm up the water. I removed about 6 cups of gravel and will continue to do a little at a time with the daily water changes.

    Thanks everyone for your valuable advice.
    Why not match tank temp from the tap?

    I do tap water changes and just match temp at the faucet then fill

    I would also stay away from ph altering products. Consistency is best. Nothing wrong with your 7.2 ph as long as you don't have a large swing after performing your aging test.
    Im not illiterate...only my phone's auto correct is

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Advice on recently set up discus aquarium

    My heaters lay on the bottom of the tank so when I do big water changes they remain submerged. I am afraid of forgetfully leaving them plugged in when the water level drops... nothing quite like hearing the snap crackle pop of an exposed heater to get your heart pounding.

    I too used to fill my tank from tap and had a "python" which allowed me to match the temp of the tap water to the tank. It worked well. I removed most of the micro bubbles from my tap water by forcing the water thru a sponge before it entered the tank and it helped a ton but they still flicked their fins a bit after a wc because the bubbles bugged them I guess. It's hard to age water without space for a bucket. We are tossing around the idea of moving my 180 gallon to the main floor and before we do that I will need to find out if my pump attached to the water barrel in the basement can push the water vertically to refill the tank,.. fingers crossed! Otherwise the tank stays in the basement.

    I know it sucks to be told that gravel hampers young discus growth/health, but the ugly bb-look would only be for a while - when the discus are larger and more robust it can be added back to the tank (with caution... I still prefer sand). We are only trying to help u avoid issues. I had a thick layer of substrate in with young discus and it was disaster! Just don't want to see u go down the same path....
    Last edited by Kyla; 10-17-2017 at 11:33 PM.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Advice on recently set up discus aquarium

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan925 View Post
    Why not match tank temp from the tap?

    I do tap water changes and just match temp at the faucet then fill

    I would also stay away from ph altering products. Consistency is best. Nothing wrong with your 7.2 ph as long as you don't have a large swing after performing your aging test.
    I was informed by our water authority to not use warm water because of the hot water that comes out of the hot water tank could contain a lot of heavy minerals and such that are bad for fish. That's the reason why I only run straight up cold water from the tap. If no one here have fish died from running warm water, I am willing to try as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyla View Post
    My heaters lay on the bottom of the tank so when I do big water changes they remain submerged. I am afraid of forgetfully leaving them plugged in when the water level drops... nothing quite like hearing the snap crackle pop of an exposed heater to get your heart pounding.

    I too used to fill my tank from tap and had a "python" which allowed me to match the temp of the tap water to the tank. It worked well. I removed most of the micro bubbles from my tap water by forcing the water thru a sponge before it entered the tank and it helped a ton but they still flicked their fins a bit after a wc because the bubbles bugged them I guess. It's hard to age water without space for a bucket. We are tossing around the idea of moving my 180 gallon to the main floor and before we do that I will need to find out if my pump attached to the water barrel in the basement can push the water vertically to refill the tank,.. fingers crossed! Otherwise the tank stays in the basement.

    I know it sucks to be told that gravel hampers young discus growth/health, but the ugly bb-look would only be for a while - when the discus are larger and more robust it can be added back to the tank (with caution... I still prefer sand). We are only trying to help u avoid issues. I had a thick layer of substrate in with young discus and it was disaster! Just don't want to see u go down the same path....
    I had an Eheim exploded once. Luckily, I was not over it when it happened. But it was loud enough that made me jumped. There were no fish in the 10 gal at the time so nothing was kill. In the current aquarium, I placed the heaters as far down into the aquarium as the length of the power cord allows and do water change up to the base of the handle.

    I removed some of the gravel yesterday and I will do more during each water change, but I feel bad for my boys. Yes, I call my discus "boys". My 12 year old daughter just rolled her eyes whenever she hears that. I don't think they like me disturbing their home. Hopefully with your advice, the change will be a positive one for them.

  15. #15
    Registered Member White Worm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Advice on recently set up discus aquarium

    You could always paint the bottom (outside of the tank) if you don't like the "BARE BOTTOM" look. I use a sand texture/multicolor paint and back it with black. It looks like a sandy bottom without the trouble of the mess.

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