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Thread: DIY "Anoxic Filtration System" eliminates nitrates? Anyone tried this?

  1. #31
    Registered Member zhuls1's Avatar
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    Default Re: DIY "Anoxic Filtration System" eliminates nitrates? Anyone tried this?

    So basically, think of it being a zeolite filter, only in a low flow situation. However, typically putting it in a canister with low flow or something like this will clog the filter, significantly reducing to almost completely stopping its effects on the water, whereas this filter simply draws the ammonia and ions in leaving any waste to flow around it so it will not get clogged and lose efficiency. If you are still concerned about the kitty litter, I don't see any reason why you couldn't just use fine zeolite. It would do the exact same thing, just cost much more.

  2. #32
    Silver Member Willie's Avatar
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    Default Re: DIY "Anoxic Filtration System" eliminates nitrates? Anyone tried this?

    Zeolite carries charges on its surface and acts as a non-specific absorbent of charged particles, including nitrate, phosphate and ammonium ions. Because it is non-specific, it will absorb everything else in the water column. Baked clay behaves exactly the same way and is used in kitty liter to absorb ammonium. If it were not for this activity, we could just use sand.

    I'm not arguing over the technology, merely that there are other ways to achieving the objective.

    Willie
    At my age, everything is irritating.

  3. #33
    Registered Member zhuls1's Avatar
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    Default Re: DIY "Anoxic Filtration System" eliminates nitrates? Anyone tried this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie View Post
    Zeolite carries charges on its surface and acts as a non-specific absorbent of charged particles, including nitrate, phosphate and ammonium ions. Because it is non-specific, it will absorb everything else in the water column. Baked clay behaves exactly the same way and is used in kitty liter to absorb ammonium. If it were not for this activity, we could just use sand.

    I'm not arguing over the technology, merely that there are other ways to achieving the objective.

    Willie
    Hey willie, I agree with most of what you said here. Simply put, this is just a new approach and more far more efficient way of using zeolite, or zeolite substitute. It is designed specifically to harbour anoxic bacteria to break down all the pollutants the zeolite adsorbs. As for it removing everything from the water column, this is simply not true. It selectively adsorbs ammonium. Their are, however, numerous other chemicals that it will adsorb, but primarily ammonium. As to other ways of achieving this objective, sure, their are other ways. But it doesnt mean they are as simple and cost effective as the anoxic filter. As far as I know, most discus keepers are not looking to spend a fortune nor do they want to set up complex filters to maintain good water quality. In my opinion, the K.I.S.S method is the best. As always, appreciate your input.

    Zac

  4. #34
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    Default Re: DIY "Anoxic Filtration System" eliminates nitrates? Anyone tried this?

    Don't clay and zeolites become saturated with cations after a few months, until they are like ordinary dirt?

  5. #35
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    Default Re: DIY "Anoxic Filtration System" eliminates nitrates? Anyone tried this?

    Quote Originally Posted by DJW View Post
    Don't clay and zeolites become saturated with cations after a few months, until they are like ordinary dirt?
    Hi, I would love to hear an answer to this.

    Also, I am not arguing with anyone, I just want clarification. Members who have posted on this thread keep saying that this method is complicated/more work. What part exactly is the hard part???
    Thanks.

  6. #36
    Registered Member Ryan925's Avatar
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    Default Re: DIY "Anoxic Filtration System" eliminates nitrates? Anyone tried this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tindomul View Post
    Hi, I would love to hear an answer to this.

    Also, I am not arguing with anyone, I just want clarification. Members who have posted on this thread keep saying that this method is complicated/more work. What part exactly is the hard part???
    Thanks.
    I think it's just a matter of personal preference. There are many people that feel huge daily wcs and sponge filters is the only way to go. Others are open to the many options out there.
    Im not illiterate...only my phone's auto correct is

  7. #37
    Registered Member 100fuegos's Avatar
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    Default Re: DIY "Anoxic Filtration System" eliminates nitrates? Anyone tried this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie View Post
    (...)In my experience, I don't add anything to the water that I don't understand 100%. I'm not advocating against your approach, but simply pointing out an alternative. Using Porthos has no downside, although probably little upside with large, frequent water changes.

    Willie
    I was going to say nothing about this but after seing it again I could just not resist:

    So you do fully understand water? Do you? Do you fully understand all and every filter material, natural and man made sold for aquarium use? Do you? You fully understand sponge used to manufacture simple sponge filters? Do you?

    I am constantly reading all over the web that we should reduce our carbon footprint, that we need to preserve the natural resourses but anything that promotes smaller and less frequent water changes is taken immediately as a discus killer.

    Come on guys, it is just inert baked clay and laterite (Seachem fluorite red is usefull too and readily available). Just ask everyone to make a couple of BCB (Biocenosis Clarification Baskets) and try them for a couple of months. If it does not work trash them and back to 100% WC every day.

    I am not positioning myself in favour or againt this method as I have absolutely no experience on it but I will certainly not trash it until after I test it for myself and see what happens.

    In Spain:
    22*22*22 cm potting basckets -- 2.20 €
    10 Kg kitty litter Carrefour brand -- 2.60 €
    3.5 Kg of Seachem Fluorite Red -- 37.39 € (this will do for quite a few BCB)

    So all in all, I am determined to test it for myself, if it does not work and I am really dubious of what it promises, I will trash everything or re use the excess flourite for something and call it done. If it works, well I can reduce the ammount of water changes and maybe the frequency too, who knows.

    In the meantime I am back to my daily at least 50 % WC in two grow out tanks, one with juvenile discus and other with captive bred altums, plus my three 80 % WC a week in my DT with 17 adult discus.

  8. #38
    Registered Member Ryan925's Avatar
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    Default Re: DIY "Anoxic Filtration System" eliminates nitrates? Anyone tried this?

    Quote Originally Posted by 100fuegos View Post
    I was going to say nothing about this but after seing it again I could just not resist:

    So you do fully understand water? Do you? Do you fully understand all and every filter material, natural and man made sold for aquarium use? Do you? You fully understand sponge used to manufacture simple sponge filters? Do you?

    I am constantly reading all over the web that we should reduce our carbon footprint, that we need to preserve the natural resourses but anything that promotes smaller and less frequent water changes is taken immediately as a discus killer.

    Come on guys, it is just inert baked clay and laterite (Seachem fluorite red is usefull too and readily available). Just ask everyone to make a couple of BCB (Biocenosis Clarification Baskets) and try them for a couple of months. If it does not work trash them and back to 100% WC every day.

    I am not positioning myself in favour or againt this method as I have absolutely no experience on it but I will certainly not trash it until after I test it for myself and see what happens.

    In Spain:
    22*22*22 cm potting basckets -- 2.20 €
    10 Kg kitty litter Carrefour brand -- 2.60 €
    3.5 Kg of Seachem Fluorite Red -- 37.39 € (this will do for quite a few BCB)

    So all in all, I am determined to test it for myself, if it does not work and I am really dubious of what it promises, I will trash everything or re use the excess flourite for something and call it done. If it works, well I can reduce the ammount of water changes and maybe the frequency too, who knows.

    In the meantime I am back to my daily at least 50 % WC in two grow out tanks, one with juvenile discus and other with captive bred altums, plus my three 80 % WC a week in my DT with 17 adult discus.
    I totally understand where you are coming from. All too often I see technology and alternate methods get knocked just because someone feels it's "unnecessary" or does not buy into it. Just because you choose not to use these things does not mean it does not work or have positive results.

    Some people are fine with doing wcs and leaving their fish flopping around on the bottom of the tank. Others are open minded to other options.

    I completely understand the tried and trued method is large wcs but it is 2017 now. There are plenty of other options out there with proven results.

    I also fully understand that nothing is a substitute for wcs but I do believe there are plenty of options out there to reduce maintenance for those that are open to it.

    Obviously to each their own but I don't feel anyone's method should be forced on anyone else. If there are things you choose not to use, fine, but that does not mean it doesn't work for others
    Im not illiterate...only my phone's auto correct is

  9. #39
    Registered Member 100fuegos's Avatar
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    Default Re: DIY "Anoxic Filtration System" eliminates nitrates? Anyone tried this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan925 View Post
    (...)
    Obviously to each their own but I don't feel anyone's method should be forced on anyone else. If there are things you choose not to use, fine, but that does not mean it doesn't work for others
    Exactly my way of thinking. Do not get me wrong, I have been doing 100% WC on my grow outs since I started in the hobby. Just two months ago I acquired 8 tank bred baby altums and basically I now share my daily 100% WC into two tanks. I did get rid of 14 juvenile discus and kept only 12 to make things work. So far so good for two months but if I can make arrangements and improve the water quality in my tanks with the same or even less WC why not try it.

    Again I am not planing to test it on my existing stock, I have set a separate tank, to be refilled with my dumping water from my existing tanks to start a test tomorro after work. I am planning to add pure ammonia and test the system. It is a small tank with two big BCB but it should reveal what is behing all this matter of Anoxic Filtration.

    Time will tell.
    Last edited by 100fuegos; 12-10-2017 at 05:32 PM.

  10. #40
    Registered Member Ryan925's Avatar
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    Default Re: DIY "Anoxic Filtration System" eliminates nitrates? Anyone tried this?

    Quote Originally Posted by 100fuegos View Post
    Exactly my way of thinking. Do not get me wrong, I have been doing 100% WC on my grow outs since I started in the hobby. Just two months ago I acquired 8 tank bred baby altums and basically I now share my daily 100% WC into two tanks. I did get rid of 14 juvenile discus and kept only 12 to make things work. So far so good for two months but if I can make arrangements and improve the water quality in my tanks with the same or even less WC why not try it.

    Again I am not planing to test it on my existing stock, I have set a separate tank, to be refilled with my dumping water from my existing tanks to start a test tomorro after work. I am planning to add pure ammonia and test the system. It is a small tank with two big BCB but it should reveal what is behing all this matter of Anoxic Filtration.

    Time will tell.
    Hey nothing wrong with experimenting. I am very much the same way I just recently tried a test with a diy algae reactor and saw obvious results and very quickly.
    Im not illiterate...only my phone's auto correct is

  11. #41
    Registered Member Shaun's Discus's Avatar
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    Default Re: DIY "Anoxic Filtration System" eliminates nitrates? Anyone tried this?

    I'm 4 weeks in to my new cycle with BCB's,, still a few weeks to go. Discus have never looked better, plant algae is nearly gone, water clarity is very nice indeed without the aid of purigen etc. I now w/c everyone other day at 50%
    If anyone is trying this, make sure you remove any carbon, purigens etc.
    It is a known that any form of chemical filtration used for polishing water etc can and will stall a cycle. You are removing the very thing that is required for new bacteria to grow and form.

    On another note, I was wondering how long it would be before this thread might start going crazy,,,, this concept is a tried and tested system by Dr. Kevin Novak, the science behind it is technical, the application is not. I'm surprised that this kind of system is not commonplace by now.

  12. #42
    Registered Member zhuls1's Avatar
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    Default Re: DIY "Anoxic Filtration System" eliminates nitrates? Anyone tried this?

    Quote Originally Posted by 100fuegos View Post
    I was going to say nothing about this but after seing it again I could just not resist:

    So you do fully understand water? Do you? Do you fully understand all and every filter material, natural and man made sold for aquarium use? Do you? You fully understand sponge used to manufacture simple sponge filters? Do you?

    I am constantly reading all over the web that we should reduce our carbon footprint, that we need to preserve the natural resourses but anything that promotes smaller and less frequent water changes is taken immediately as a discus killer.

    Come on guys, it is just inert baked clay and laterite (Seachem fluorite red is usefull too and readily available). Just ask everyone to make a couple of BCB (Biocenosis Clarification Baskets) and try them for a couple of months. If it does not work trash them and back to 100% WC every day.

    I am not positioning myself in favour or againt this method as I have absolutely no experience on it but I will certainly not trash it until after I test it for myself and see what happens.

    In Spain:
    22*22*22 cm potting basckets -- 2.20 €
    10 Kg kitty litter Carrefour brand -- 2.60 €
    3.5 Kg of Seachem Fluorite Red -- 37.39 € (this will do for quite a few BCB)

    So all in all, I am determined to test it for myself, if it does not work and I am really dubious of what it promises, I will trash everything or re use the excess flourite for something and call it done. If it works, well I can reduce the ammount of water changes and maybe the frequency too, who knows.

    In the meantime I am back to my daily at least 50 % WC in two grow out tanks, one with juvenile discus and other with captive bred altums, plus my three 80 % WC a week in my DT with 17 adult discus.
    Thank you fuegos, this must be the most sensible post I have read so far. Good to keep a neutral perspective. The worst that can happen is it doesnt work as well as inteded, in which case we can just forget about the method and move on. Never hurts to try, and we will never learn if dont experiment with new things and methods. By the way, bought some cat litter today, the only thing on its ingredients list is zeolite. Turns out the clay in cat litter is zeolite, zeolite must be the biggest rip off in the aquarium industry. Bought 15l for $6, now I know where to get cheap zeolite LOL.

  13. #43
    Registered Member zhuls1's Avatar
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    Default Re: DIY "Anoxic Filtration System" eliminates nitrates? Anyone tried this?

    Quote Originally Posted by DJW View Post
    Don't clay and zeolites become saturated with cations after a few months, until they are like ordinary dirt?
    Hey DJW, to answer your question, They shouldn't become saturated with cations as they adsorb the cations. Meaning it get stuck to their surface. In a typical canister filter or other traditional filtration method, this will eventually saturate the zeolite. However, the benefit of this filter is that it grows heterotrophic bacteria that break down the ions. Think of the zeolite as a magnet, and the bacteria as what "eats" everything that gets stuck on the magnet.

  14. #44
    Registered Member Luke in Phoenix's Avatar
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    Default Re: DIY "Anoxic Filtration System" eliminates nitrates? Anyone tried this?

    Quote Originally Posted by zhuls1 View Post
    Thank you fuegos, this must be the most sensible post I have read so far. Good to keep a neutral perspective. The worst that can happen is it doesnt work as well as inteded, in which case we can just forget about the method and move on. Never hurts to try, and we will never learn if dont experiment with new things and methods. By the way, bought some cat litter today, the only thing on its ingredients list is zeolite. Turns out the clay in cat litter is zeolite, zeolite must be the biggest rip off in the aquarium industry. Bought 15l for $6, now I know where to get cheap zeolite LOL.
    Agreed.

    Also, which zeolite cat litter did you buy? Thanks!

  15. #45
    Registered Member Luke in Phoenix's Avatar
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    Default Re: DIY "Anoxic Filtration System" eliminates nitrates? Anyone tried this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan925 View Post
    Hey nothing wrong with experimenting. I am very much the same way I just recently tried a test with a diy algae reactor and saw obvious results and very quickly.
    My diy algae scrubber works amazing also. I'm hoping this will be another supplement to the aquarium system that will make the water even healthier while reducing water changes. From all the testimonials I've seen so far, these baskets are going to be awesome.
    They probably haven't become super popular super quickly because you need a sump and aquarium companies aren't selling them because you can make them for a couple bucks DIY. If I was one of these companies, I would be keeping Anoxic baskets a very big secret.

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