DIY "Anoxic Filtration System" eliminates nitrates? Anyone tried this?

[Shaun's Discus]

Very cool stuff indeed

Get on it Ryan

[Ryan925]

Get on it Ryan

Lol I do love to tinker. My algae reactor project has been a positive.

I have a 40B sump that I recently built that is just collecting dust. I need to find some time to build a stand to house it then maybe this is a possibility

[tolga]

hey tolga! just thought I would answer your questions as best as I could.

1. Firstly, can this system be set up inside a separate container using pure household ammonia as in the fishless cyle method?

I don't see any reason you couldn't use a seperate container using household ammonia to cycle it. however, this filter removes so much more than just ammonia, it removes things such as phosphates too. If you are going for the fishless cycle, I would recommend using fish food or raw shrimp to cycle your aquarium because this will allow bacteria that consumes phosphates to grow in addition to ammonia consuming bacteria. It will also have other bacterias growing removing different toxins from the water.

2. Secondly, is this system compatible with the use of medication should the need arise?

This system should be treated as typical biological filtration in this regard, as long as the medications you use do not effect the population of bacteria in the aquarium, than it should be safe to use. In general, medications other than antibiotics should be safe to use.

3. Thirdly, can this system be employed in blackwater tanks or wild discus tanks with very low ph/conductivity

It should operate just fine in such a situation.

4. would the process of ion exchange that takes place within the structure of the cat litter, have any affect on tannins and humic substances?

Sorry, not too sure about this one.

Thank you zhuls1. I really appreciate your response. It seems that this system is more suited to “gin clear” type tanks and I’m going to have to find out about the possibility of running it in a blackwater tank with the added tannins from peat and almond leaves for my heckels. The way I’ve understood it is that apart from the biological activity of the various bacteria that reside deep within the structure of the cat litter which results in the obliteration of the less toxic version of ammonia along with nitrite, nitrate, and phosphate, there is also a chemical process where some of the existing posititive ions are drawn into the surface of the cat litter. While this is something very desirable for water clarity and purity, it may not necessarily work if it results in the constant reduction of humic substances within the water column. Although, that might depend on whether the humic substances are made up of positive ions. In relation to the use of medication, again you say that this is essentially a biological filter and as with all biological filters, certain medications, (especially, certain antibiotics) might have a detrimental affect on the beneficial bacteria that reside within the structure of the medium in question. With conventional biological filters, any damage to the bacterial population can be remedied by regular water changes and the addition of certain products designed to kickstart the bacterial reproduction for a relatively short period of time. The difficulty with the anoxic filter is that if the bacteria gets knocked out for any reason, the period that will be required to re activate this filter might be longer. Also, the instructions for most medications include statements such as “remove chemical media such as carbon, purigen, or zeolite” and if the cat litter is similar to zeolites, then it might absorb or somehow reduce the active ingredient of a given medicine. So, I suppose the issue here might also be about the affect of the filter on the given medication rather than the other way around. Ideally, one would hope that one would not need to medicate a tank with an established anoxic filter or do the medication in a separate hospital tank, but the challenge of breaking down and restarting the anoxic filter in the main tank would still be there. Also, I have been experimenting with the idea of relying on my conventional biological filter to reduce the ph value of the main water column (which is extremely soft) with the help of nitric acid as one of the end products of denitrification without having to ad any additional ph lowering products or CO2 and managed to achieve some sort of ph stability trough regular small water changes and heavy aeration. I realize this may be an irrelevant point for most discus hobbyists who rely on aged tap water and frequent water changes in massive quantities. At the end of the day, all of these issues can be determined by starting an experimental system of anoxic filter and running it for a while, which is something I might get into at some stage. Again, thank you for engaging with my questions.

[Salty Sphynx]

Okay, just made my DIY "Anoxic Filration System", placed an basket in my sump, removed a basket of siporax bio filter medium. Will have to wait and see what happens down the road in six month. https://youtu.be/fVsQfhoRoz0

I look forward to your updates!

Did you use the laterite with the litter? If so, where did you obtain it? I am having a heck of a time locating laterite.

[Salty Sphynx]

Two things, kitty litter alone doesn't constitute a BCB, you need Laterite in the middle of it. Secondly, the system doesn't work with high flow and in a canister, how do you stop all the muck and filth entering the basket?. Canisters are nothing but nitrate producing filth machines and IMO are not good for a discus setup. Sump is the only way to go, especially if you decide to use BCB's

Are you able to easily obtain laterite in Oz?

[zhuls1]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yINbj43LwL8, I use flourite red. It is only needed as a source of minerals particularly iron for when the bacteria is first establishing.

[Salty Sphynx]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yINbj43LwL8, I use flourite red. It is only needed as a source of minerals particularly iron for when the bacteria is first establishing.

Doh! Thank you!

I've been poring over his videos for days now, and totally missed this one.

In the meantime, I was able to snatch up 4 boxes of what seems to be the very last of it in the Tampa Bay area Petsmarts, lol.

[gators111]

tolga,
I'm running one of these in a tank with a ph of 5 and a TDS of 100, GH/KH are both 1. I've got a pantyhose leg stocking full of sphagnum moss that's been in my sump for a couple of months. I used the wal-mart kitty litter and a few handfuls of Flourite red in my CBC. I put mine in the Saturday after Thanksgiving, so in a month or so hopefully I will start to see nitrate start to lower.

[tolga]

[QUOTE=gators111;1279969]tolga,
I'm running one of these in a tank with a ph of 5 and a TDS of 100, GH/KH are both 1. I've got a pantyhose leg stocking full of sphagnum moss that's been in my sump for a couple of months. I used the wal-mart kitty litter and a few handfuls of Flourite red in my CBC. I put mine in the Saturday after Thanksgiving, so in a month or so hopefully I will start to see nitrate start to lower.[/QUOTE

gators111, thank you for sharing your experience. That sounds very promising.

[JimmyBanks]

Very interesting to watch. I'm just in the process of planning to set up a tank and get some discus. I've had no experiencce previously keeping discus, would you suggest this method of filtration for a beginner?

[Salty Sphynx]

Very interesting to watch. I'm just in the process of planning to set up a tank and get some discus. I've had no experiencce previously keeping discus, would you suggest this method of filtration for a beginner?

I am not new to fish keeping, but I am in the process of setting up my first discus tank (92 gal bow front).

We will be setting up a sump with the anoxic filtration system, probably a min of 12 BCBs. There are some great videos put out by Shaun's Fish Tanks and Dr Kevin Novak on youtube. My advice is to learn all you can about the subject. Talk to those who have success with it. And learn all you can about discus keeping; the required water parameters, compatible tank mates, PH, temperature, quarantining, etc etc.

After months of diligent research, and understanding the science behind it, this filtration system seems ideal. Take in the knowledge. Take it slow, and you'll do what's best for the discus.

Wish you all the best.

[Paul Sabucchi]

The system has had a few followers over here in Italy for a few years, mostly keepers of koi carp, for which it was originally designed. Some have had it running for over 5 years and are still very happy with it. Main objection is that it tends to silt up quickly particularly if a good mechanical prefilter is not used. On both the italian discus forums lately there has been a fair bit of interest (some are even in touch directly with Dr Novak) and some are already testing different materials. There seem do be at least 2 different brands of kitty litter that would be ok and various options for laterite or it's alternatives. I'm planning to adopt it for my goldfish pond and may in time see if I could use it for my discus, but lacking a sump it means putting a few baskets in the main tank (anyway I was thinking of adding some potted plants), so the effectiveness (working together with the canister) will be greatly reduced

[farebox]

I've gone all in with this Anoxic Filtration System for my 125G Discus tank with an 20G long DIY sump. The current set now contains an old Eheim 2213 canister filter acting as the pre-filter per Dr. Novak's U-tube video, 2 Rena Filstar XP baskets, and one food container basket filled the clay cat litter and Flourite Red. The pre-filter has Pinky filter material and some carbon for the mechanical filtration. No other bio media running. I did notice a change in my fish behavior and some different coloration on my Pinoy angel fish. The discus seem to be more relaxed so far. Still doing 50% water changes every other day since started the setup last Friday. The nitrate test read 10 ppm before my water change this morning. I'll will keep you all posted as the system progresses.

[Tindomul]

So why not setup the entire substrate layer of your tank in the same way as a BCB? Catlitter and laterite with a plenum?? Wouldn't that work also?

[Salty Sphynx]

So why not setup the entire substrate layer of your tank in the same way as a BCB? Catlitter and laterite with a plenum?? Wouldn't that work also?

I asked that very same question of Dr Novak in the comment section of one of his videos; no response as of yet. With that said, I have seen others' videos where some have successfully used it and others who just complained of the tank being too dusty and cloudy (am pretty sure that would be due to not rinsing it extremely thoroughly).

Couple of issues as I see it: 1. Of course the all natural, baked clay litter would be the only viable option, as clumping, scented etc would NOT work. and 2. Since Novak's and Shaun's BCBs all have a mesh lining and topping, then covered with a bag of rocks/pebbles to prevent the litter from roaming and clouding, I'm thinking it's probably not the best idea for substrate.

But, I would love to hear if anyone is using it and recommends it.

I personally want to use PFS, over a plenum, but am hearing conflicting advice in doing so. My substrate choice is an ongoing conundrum, lol, but I have a couple of weeks left to figure it out before I am at the aquascaping stage.