Massive Ammonia Spike in Established 1yr+ Aquarium

[undel]

Water tests showed >.25ppm <.5ppm ammonia after the 25% change
PH went from 6.6 to 7.0

Unless someone can advise me otherwise, I'm going to do another water change in 2 hours to keep getting that ammonia out. The less there is in there, the less the PH will swing. The ammonia is neutralized, so it's the ammonia consumption by bacteria that's causing these crazy ph swings?

Alternatively, this is anaerobic gasses as brewmaster says it may be, and in that case every water change is diluting it, but if it is the gasses, getting it all out of there in one go is best.

Is getting the ammonia out of there in one go best? If so, the solution for either problem is the same. If not, I don't want to do anything too crazy!

[brewmaster15]

Hi Got your pm..
first off take a step back. The ph swing is not a big deal ..its not going to make your fish act as they are.Something else mist be going ...pH 6.6 to 7.2 may stress outbyour fish a bit but will not do what you are seeing. Even the ammonia readings you are seeing wont cause what you are seeing .Is there anything else that you can think of thats changed since their behavior has. Are you sure your tests are accurate as far as water parameters?
al

[undel]

Thank you!

I've rerun the tests multiple times. I'm reasonably confident as to their accuracy. They do not expire until 2019. I'm a bottle-shaker-directions-follower.

The only major thing that's changed (in the last week) is the addition of the 4 discus yesterday, and the vortech power head addition. I did rinse off the part of the power head that goes in the water, but when I pulled it out of the package it had a chemically smell.

Last week on alternating days I did clean my filters out. I did this under the stream of draining aquarium water my python puts out to my laundry sink.

Three weeks ago I switched out all substrate in front of my 3d wall, though the substrate behidn it was left behind. There were 3 complete water changes done during the substrate switch, and my fish were all housed for those 3 days in various other tanks.

There is construction going on close to my house. The PH of my tap water is higher than usual. (7.6 as of last reading, which is higher than this morning by a touch. It's also colder and rained today.) We do not have well water. It's city water.

Winter has arrived and with it many rainstorms and cold temperatures. My python and filter floss are producing more bubbles than normal.




Edit: It is worth noting that I do vaccum behind my wall, as the python can fit back there in most areas. Is it possible I stirred up those gasses you mentioned? I don't smell rotten egg. But if it's something toxic that's not ammonia that's causing the behavior and ammonia spike, I'm ready to do a 90% change to get that stuff out of my tank! I don't want to poison my fish!

Edit 2: they've been spooking a lot today, so I did remove their driftwood (which may have housed more good bacteria... but they were spooking so much and scraping themselves up good.). Could they be sitting on the bottom because they have no cover and are used to it? One fish did completely lay down, but got back up when I walked by.


The fish that were looking rough that i moved downstairs are all swimming around and clamping less.

[undel]

Here are some videos. The worst-off fish were removed to the basement. So these are the guys who are handling this best. As a note, the sand is cleaned. Those black things are the 1/2 cup of substrate I just could not get out of the tank before I added the sand. It's a 30 inch tall tank and I could not reach some of it with my spatula. So I have a very small amount of little black pebbles left in front.

https://youtu.be/SFvANlUCvKI

https://youtu.be/uVwiQuOSao8

[brewmaster15]

ok..that vid helps I think.How long did you Qt the new fish?
al

[undel]

ok..that vid helps I think.How long did you Qt the new fish?
al

12 days. I was bad. They received a course of prazipro for one week, a few days rest, and a single day course of levamisole to deworm everyone. The aggression/bullying issues in the quarantine tank without a large school had me rushing to get them into the main tank. No one showed any signs of illness.


Here is the fish that was laying down (she's the white one):
https://youtu.be/Kp5WLGw1JC4

[undel]

As an update, everyone in the basement tanks are hanging out mid to top water level and seems to be recovering. Everyone in the main tank is alternating between top of tank and bottom of tank. I think they may be sitting on the bottom of the tank because I removed all of their driftwood and they're used to having places to hide when they're upset or I'm doing a water change. There's no driftwood to hide behind, so maybe they're chilling out near the bottom? They get up and move if I walk by, and half of the tank has unclamped.

That one that laid down for a bit scared the heck out of me. She seems fine now.

I'll try and be patient and will do frequent water changes while the ammonia sorts itself out. Thank you so much for the advice so far. This has been a scary day!

[undel]

I'm looking at my fish and wondering if this is no normal slime coat shed. Here are some zoomed in photos. 75% of the fish have this to one degree or another.

Attachment 113306Attachment 113307

[undel]

Some of my fish are back to the bottom, leaning to the side. They are huddling together, sometimes on the bottom, sometimes near the top. The white fish that seemed to be bouncing back? I found her on her side again. She got off it when I walked up, but that's not normal. I've never had a fish do that before. I've never seen anything move this fast. 36 hours ago I had a school of healthy discus. Now, nearly all of them are showing pretty severe symptoms and behaviors.

The tank was doing so well. I'd just finished bringing a little guy back to health who had a bad spell in July, and was finally recovered and growing again. I thought it was time to complete my school. I have had 12 of the 16 fish for over a year now. They've each grown so big and beautiful. They're my buddies.

The little guys I got seemed so healthy. But they were being bullies and I thought they were going to kill the smallest one without a big school to spread agression. I thought their health and the proactive anti-parasitics would make adding them safe. I'm such an idiot. There is a reason why everyone recommends the 6-week hero fish method. The first time I added new fish, I didn't just do a 6 week hero fish thing. I did 10 weeks. I knew better than to add these fish so soon. I did it anyway.

I was telling myself that their odd behavior was all due to PH swings and ammonia poisoning, but now that the PH is pretty stable again and my ammonia is down to .25, I don't think I can console myself with that anymore. They aren't getting better, they're getting worse. There's some pathogen in my tank, and it is hitting my fish hard and fast. I don't know what to do. I think I'm going to lose them.

[undel]

I'm thinking about doing a PP dip according to this article: http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...nate-3-min-dip Is this advised? I'm trying to figure out how to treat these guys while they're still treatable.

At the very least I'm going to get some PP on-hand and make up a stock solution so I have it for a rainy day.

[brewmaster15]

Im guessing here that the issues with your water quality stressed the fish out and lowered their immune system then what happened is the new guys brought something in. It fits with how fast they crashed.

Pp will set your biofilter back more than it is and may not even help here as it only treats external issues..

What you see is common when stock is mixed and qts skipped or insufficient. Often the fish will fight it off on their own....yours sound like they are not. Many people use furan2 or kanamycin in cases like this...the down side is your biofilter will also take a hit and you really need to max out your waterchanges.

If you can find a way to do100% day or even 50% twice a day while they are sick it would help I am sure.

Al

[undel]

Thank you for the advice.

Is this something where I need to wipe it out in one go, or can I pick and choose who to treat?

I could return everyone to the main tank and treat the main tank. (If they survive, that's ideally where I want to everyone to end up). But as you said, the biofilter.

Alternatively, I could treat those with the worst of it with furan-2 in the 72 gallon and 29 gallon tanks, trash those biofilters, and just do water changes on the main tank to get the water cleared up. However, everyone would need to be returned to the main tank, which will not have been treated, and will contain fish that were not treated. But maybe the main tank will be more stable biofilterwise, and the discus will be in a better place health-wise?

[brewmaster15]

You would want to treat all fish or you risk a relapse.. I'm sorry. I would treat in the main tank at this point and wc wc wc,

al

[bluelagoon]

Just keep in mind when you have ammonia readings in a low ph and when new water is added making it higher in PH than 7,the ammonia left in the tank will become more toxic than it was.That's another reason aging large amounts of water for large changes is the way to go .

[undel]

I'm doing a 50% water change and preparing to add meds as we speak. I opted to go with Kanaplex, as I had 4 tubes of it on-hand, which is enough to get me by until I can have some more shipped to me. The tube says that it won't impact the biofilter, but I'll stay skeptical on that front.

I think an aging barrel makes a lot of sense. Unfortunately my setup isn't practical for it. I can live with the plastic totes and the 7 5-gallon buckets in my living room for a month or three while I sort out this cycle, but longterm there's not a good way for me to age my water without hauling it up the stairs myself or planting the barrel in the middle of my living room or dining room, right on top of our not-liquid-friendly-floors. I love where we have the tank. I walk by it 20 times a day or more, and so does my husband. It's in a place where guests can admire and feed our little guys too. Basement's probably more practical for a tank. I'm envious of the multi-floor-piping it Kyla has going on though!

Hopefully my finned friends can be saved. I don't get too broken up when a tetra or a cory goes. It's not a specific fish to me. It's "one of the tetras" or "one of the snails". But my discus are different. I was sobbing last night. Each of the discus has its own personality. I can tell them all apart. They follow me around the tank (probably just for food, but it's endearing) Some of them are pushy, some are shy. The smallest one (pre-addition of the new fish) was also the most vicious, and it was so cute to watch him rule the tank and not take any shenanigans from the bigger fish. My red turq is a ham. He'll follow me anytime I walk by, and he's so food motivated he'll put himself at all angle to retrieve any stray scrap, despite being my largest and least coordinated fish.

Thank you all for your knowledge and expertise. I feel much better having a plan of action.