How Long Until Nitrites Show Up?

[CammieTime]

UPDATE: I am on day 48 with still no sign of Nitrites. Fishless cycle failed in timeframes stated. Big water changes every other day and Prime keep ammonia near zero. I setup a second tank to cycle new media to try and determine the issue here.

[bluelagoon]

If there are no fish in the tank,why are you changing water?The tank needs a build up of ammonia until bb attach well to the surface of the system.

[JamesW]

Buy this:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002DZNP3E...865088445&th=1

Nitrite will appear in 7 days if you keep ammonia at 2ppm or less.

[CammieTime]

Buy this:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002DZNP3E...865088445&th=1

Nitrite will appear in 7 days if you keep ammonia at 2ppm or less.

I did that, dumped the whole bottle in the tank Monday night. Hopefully this is the answer.

[JamesW]

What happened?

[CammieTime]

What happened?

Absolutely nothing. Tetra Safe Start (TSS) failed in this 75 gallon tank with seven 3" discus in it. It's been 14 days since I put the TSS in the tank and last night ammonia was at 0.5 ppm, 0 nitrites, and 0 nitrates. Tank was setup in November, ammonia put in on 12/1/17 for fishless cycling prior to fish arrival on 12/27/17. Total time since first ammonia entered tank: 87 days. Still zero nitrite and nitrate. Fish are still alive due to regular large water changes and daily doses of Prime.

Note that all information provided to me on fish tank cycling has proven false. Based on the 100's of internet articles I've found on people having trouble cycling tanks, I'm not alone. Cycling a tank is a very common problem encountered by experienced people who are well aware of the nitrogen cycle, it's not just beginners who have trouble. The cycling process is clearly much more fussy and tank specific than most people seem to realize. You can follow the exact same procedures with two different tanks and one will cycle and one will not. I have a tank with fish in it that is not cycling at all - this can and DOES happen. The reason could be an array of things - the use of prime, inadequate filtration, big water changes, dissolved oxygen, insufficient ammonia, too much ammonia, pH, etc. Of the stories I've read, someone failed a fishless cycle with hardware store ammonia, but easily started a cycle with a shrimp, someone else added a canister filter and the tank cycled within a week.

My 30 gallon test tank with Seachem Stability also failed to start a cycle - ammonia was still at 2.0ppm after 14 days - way too high for fish. I drained that tank and started over again a week ago with another attempt with Tetra Safe Start and a very small amount of ammonia on a daily basis, to simulate fish waste. As of last night, it appears that nitrites are starting to develop in that tank, suggesting TSS is working there. This time I followed the directions online on how to use TSS (NOT the directions on the bottle), and had the luxury of doing so since there are not fish in the tank. Water changes are not allowed and you have to endure a 1.0ppm ammonia level for at least 7 days.

I also learned that Tetra Safe Start cannot be used with discus for fish in cycling because TSS requires an ammonia level of 0.5 to 1.0 for a week to 10 days - this was confirmed by a Tetra rep. TSS is designed for fish that can tolerate 1.0ppm ammonia for a few days. Discus can't handle even 0.25ppm.

[bluelagoon]

This is a good read about conditioners:http://petskeepersguide.com/detoxify...monia-nitrite/

[kalawai]

I would buy a active sponge from AngelsPlus or someone that has extra one for your tank. It’s sounds like the cycling has bottomed out on you with adding Prime stalling it.
Bummers

[SNap0283]

Your water source also matters. If you have well water your cycle will be quick. Probably the people who are claiming days to cycle with hardware store ammonia have well water at their house. People who are on city tap water it will take much longer, 6 weeks or more. This is because they start with almost 0 bacteria since the chlorine added to the tap water kills it all.

[JamesW]

I'm sorry that didn't work for you, I thought this tank was a fishless cycle. Like the 30 gallon test tank that was successful. Its disappointing but good information that the beneficial bacteria in a bottle doesn't work in conditions required for the survival of discus.

[CammieTime]

UPDATE:

This is what I learned/found out:

1. My two Hydro V 125 gallon sponge failed to establish a bacteria colony. Why, I don't know.

2. My entire bacteria colony was establishing itself on my AquaClear 110 pre-filter (the small foam piece I put over the water intake) and nowhere else. I used this prefilter to keep large food particles clogging up the main filter. During water changes this pre-filter falls off the intake due to it being water logged. I would regularly squeeze it out and rinse it out with tap water since its intended purpose was mechanical filtration. Turns out, I was killing off my entire bacteria colony every time I did this.

3. Tetra Safe Start works, but you cannot do water changes for at least a week, and it takes a month to fully cycle a tank. TSS does not "instantly" cycle a tank. It speeds up the cycling process so on day one you have both ammonia and nitrite eating bacteria, but it takes time for these to grow in sufficient numbers to cycle a tank, nitrite spikes can take a couple of weeks or more to go away. I discovered all this via experiments with TSS in a 29 gallon breeding tank.

4. Prime does NOT impact beneficial bacteria. I conducted 100% water changes on my partially cycled test tank, added pure ammonia, and had nitrite and nitrate the next day.

5. Removing the pre-filter on my AquaClear and adding cycled filter media into the AquaClear main filter section generated nitrite and nitrate in my 75 gallon tank with two days. FINALLY. Three months after adding fish.

6. Beneficial bacteria prefer to start growing at certain locations over others - THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT. Mine chose to establish itself on the pre-filter, ignoring the AquaClear 110, Marineland 360 canister filter, and two Hydro V sponge filters. Removing the prefilter forced it to start growing inside those large filters, as desired, and immediately I started getting nitrite and nitrate...nearly 100 days after I added fish. The nitrite is very low and I am doing regular water changes to keep the fish from getting hurt by it.

7. My water goes through a water softener prior to my aging barrels (since I get it from a shower head) and my pH is 8.4. This seems to have no negative effects on tank cycling or fish health.

[CammieTime]

In a nutshell, I was unable to establish a working cycle in my 75 gallon tank because the AC 110 I had did not have the correct media. For some reason, ammonia eating bacteria in my water live only on cleansing pads/batting material while nitrite eating bacteria only live on those hard limestone cylinder things that come with the Aquaclear. Since the AC did not come with fine batting type filter material I assumed it was not required. Turns out, the entire cycle is dependent on it. I've proved this theory out in multiple fishless test tanks over the past year. The second I added filter batting media the cycle took off.

Also - once the bacteria gets established it is incredibly hard to kill off. I shut the power off a test tank for a week, temp dropped to 62 degrees, then turn the power back on. Bacteria took a hit but quickly got going again. I tried directly filling the tank WITHOUT prime from a shower head - again bacteria took a hit but within three days was back to eating a full capful of ammonia a day.