Quarantined correctly but still died

[HappyFace]

We all know that quarantine in is important. I wonder if anyone has done everything possible right, quarantined their fish, had excellent quality water, did lots of large water changes but still your discus died-either during quarantine or as you were trying to introduce one or more to your display tank. Was there any take away from the experience? Would you have done anything differently if you had it to do over again?

[HappyFace]

I've read a lot of people's posts on quarantining. I want to make sure I do everything right with my next batch of discus. I'd love to hear any nugget of advice if you have any. I learned to always have a spare filter (preferably 2), spare pumps and heaters. 3 of my canister filters went down in a year. I had 2 expensive return pumps go bad in the last 2 years so I always have a spare for both my koi and discus tanks. Also I love my finnex heater It beeped if the temperature was too low and always gave the best temperature readout. Even if the heating element goes out it still gives you a readout of the temperature.

[CammieTime]

I just had 5 of 8 new 3" fish refuse to eat in QT and consequently get stressed. I think they got too stressed during shipping. The other 3 fish ate heartily and are growing, so I know its not my water quality. I suspected internal parasites and tried 93 degrees for a week (worked last time) and that did nothing, seemed to only stress them more. Then I gave them a full dose of API General Cure and they started showing signs of life after two days, swimming around, and are already eating and I am only on day 4.

[HappyFace]

I just had 5 of 8 new 3" fish refuse to eat in QT and consequently get stressed. I think they got too stressed during shipping. The other 3 fish ate heartily and are growing, so I know its not my water quality. I suspected internal parasites and tried 93 degrees for a week (worked last time) and that did nothing, seemed to only stress them more. Then I gave them a full dose of API General Cure and they started showing signs of life after two days, swimming around, and are already eating and I am only on day 4.

I'm so happy they are doing better. Thank you for sharing Cammie.

[Second Hand Pat]

There is a thread here on Simply which is an excellent read. I suspect we read the entire thread. Here the link http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...ine-*questions.

At the heart of this thread is Al's post and what he does for QT. Here's the post, post #88.

Hi all,
Just saw this and thought I would update. I do much of what I always have done.. though I do tailor it a bit different depending on the condition the fish come in...

For those interested..I had done several Discus Disease and Health Presentations over the years... The following are from a few pages of that presentation. HTH, al

Suggested Quarantine Procedures...
Receive fish: Place into a clean tank with aged (well aerated/pH stable warm water (85-87F). Use a well cycled bio filter.
Week One: Many Frequent water changes, observe fish behavior, and treat for anything specifically noted******. Be sure all fish are eating well and passing normal feces.
Week Two: Prophylactic deworming with Praziquantel for tape worms, several days latter deworm with general dewormer (levamisole) added to water as 24 hour bath
Week Three: Repeat Levamisole as 24 hour bath
Week Four: Let rest, nothing but water changes.
Week Five: Re-dose with Levamisole as 24 hour bath
Week Six: Quarantine is over if the fish are looking healthy and eating well and are not to be mixed with existing stock. If these are to be mixed with existing stock..add least favorite of existing stock (aka Test fish) to new fishes stock.
Week Six-Week Eight: Observe new stock and test fish. If all is well, most likely safe to mix all fish.
**** important note

Quarantine Common Sense:
Maintain complete separation of new stock from existing livestock.
Use separate nets, hoses, buckets, and siphons for each quarantine tank.
Separate rooms are much safer than in room quarantines.
Perform all maintenance on new stock’s quarantine tank after you are done with all existing tanks.
Wash hands and arms thoroughly after working in tanks.
Maintain optimum water quality, less stress means healthier fish
Tank should have a fully cycled bio-filter. Quarantining a group of fish is not the time to be cycling a tank!!!
Be vigilant… catching and treating a problem early on is better than latter when it may be harder or impossible to treat.

Brews Top 11 Discus Health Issues
1. Chemical Poisoning: Chlorine, Chloramine, ammonia, nitrite, heavy metals (ex. copper and iron), Medications. Suggested treatment…clean water and lots of it!
2. Dissolved gases: Low dissolved oxygen or high dissolved C02/nitrogen etc. Suggested treatment ...age and aerate water.
3. Improper Shipping and Handling Techniques: Suggested treatment…prophylactic screening of suppliers and buying only from reputable ones.
4. Improper care of Discus at Vendor’s Shop: Suggested treatment…prophylactic screening of suppliers and buying from reputable ones.
5. Well meaning but inappropriate or inaccurate advice. Suggested course of action…Check references…information abounds in the internet and pet shops, both good and bad info.
Improper care of Discus on the part of the hobbyist. To keep any fish, a basic knowledge of species requirements and needs exists…Discus require a bit more than basic knowledge. Suggested treatment…Learn as much as you can!!
7. Poor Tank Hygiene Syndrome: Suggested treatment….Be less stingy with the water changes and maintenance.
8. “Charlie Brown Christmas Tree Syndrome” A fish that is sickly or poor quality when you buy it isn’t going to miraculously turn into a beautiful specimen. Suggestion..start with obviously healthy stock, not obviously sickly or low grade stock.
9. Hobbyist Mediated Pandemic: Occurs when a hobbyist recklessly acquires many specimens in a short period of time from multiple sources…mixing these together with existing stock then leads to Immune Overload..aka..sick fish. Suggested treatment….Learn patience and adhere to a sound Quarantine plan!!
10. Nutritional deficiencies…Largely unknown how this affects Discus specifically.. But what we do know is that every animal needs an adequate diet.. Suggestion…feed a varied diet to your discus of quality foods.

And finally…… Number 11!!!!


11. Gill flukes, external and internal protozoans, nematodes, bacterial infections, viruses, “plagues”etc…..

Why is this one listed last in a talk about Discus Diseases and health you may ask?…

Because! If you pay attention to the first 10 conditions mentioned you may not even need to worry about number 11! A healthy fish that has all its needs taken care of and is not stressed has an innate advantage when dealing with diseases and illness..

[HappyFace]

Thank you Pat. This is an excellent thread. I'm very glad you shared it. This is exactly what I needed.

[HappyFace]

There is a thread here on Simply which is an excellent read. I suspect we read the entire thread. Here the link http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...ine-*questions.

I don't want to muck up that thread with my post. I just want to say I love this link you shared because it gives me hope that quarantine will not fail. Quarantine doesn't have to be about sitting back and hoping your discus don't get sick it. You can proactively, step by step, pre-treat and hopefully prevent disease and cross contamination from happening so that when you introduce QT fish to your display tank, they are hopefully disease free. I need to treat my existing tank of discus as well.

[Second Hand Pat]

I don't want to muck up that thread with my post. I just want to say I love this link you shared because it gives me hope that quarantine will not fail. Quarantine doesn't have to be about sitting back and hoping your discus don't get sick it. You can proactively, step by step, pre-treat and hopefully prevent disease and cross contamination from happening so that when you introduce QT fish to your display tank, they are hopefully disease free. I need to treat my existing tank of discus as well.

Hi Heidi, quarantine minimizes risk. The use of a hero fish limits the risk to the fish in quarantine and one fish from your current stock. With living things there are no guarantees.
Pat

[kalawai]

Thank you Heidi and Pat for sharing these posts...it cannot be stressed enough about the importance of quarantine new fish. I’m sorry about the loss of the new fish it’s heartbreaking and money loss of losing the fish. Discus aren’t cheap either..no matter of where you purchase them from ..shipping them can be still be a very stressful event for both the fish and the person waiting on them to make their final destination.

[HappyFace]

Hi Heidi, quarantine minimizes risk. The use of a hero fish limits the risk to the fish in quarantine and one fish from your current stock. With living things there are no guarantees.
Pat

I understand. Thank you Pat.

[Hart24601]

My tap water is poor here in Iowa. When I started back with discus I spent a lot of money on a group from a respected source here but lost many of them despite doing huge waterchanges with aged water through carbon blocks. The tap nitrates are high but not insane, however those alone should not have killed them off but there are many compounds not tested for that could have had impact. I bought another group and now use only RO/DI water (and large W/C during growout) and the males hit 6" TL under 1 year of age. So it was either the source which isn't likely, or the tap water. Although the fish might have not hit full size if I had not done large W/C and used plant filtration perhaps some of them would have lived. Who knows.

So yes it happens even when you follow the rules.

[HappyFace]

Thank you for sharing this Hart.

[HappyFace]

I was up late last night doing searches on Simply. I looked up "discus virus" which resulted in a lot of eye opening posts about mystery diseases that wipe out half or all of your discus for little or no apparent reason. One person had his discus 3 years and all he did was switch everyone to a bigger tank and his discus started dying. Even Discus Hans wasn't immune - his stock were affected and he hoped research would help find a "cure". It appears discus keeping, maybe fish keeping in general, is risky. Fish appear to be carriers of multiple diseases inside of them and they don't appear to have good immune systems. If exposed to new infectious agents or a little trigger like stress, even moving to a bigger tank, might set them off.

Good luck to us all. I've been planning on investing a nice lump sum of money into purchasing high quality adult discus and I wonder- does anyone have a decent group of discus (10-20) that have all survived for a very long time?

[two utes]

I was up late last night doing searches on Simply. I looked up "discus virus" which resulted in a lot of eye opening posts about mystery diseases that wipe out half or all of your discus for little or no apparent reason. One person had his discus 3 years and all he did was switch everyone to a bigger tank and his discus started dying. Even Discus Hans wasn't immune - his stock were affected and he hoped research would help find a "cure". It appears discus keeping, maybe fish keeping in general, is risky. Fish appear to be carriers of multiple diseases inside of them and they don't appear to have good immune systems. If exposed to new infectious agents or a little trigger like stress, even moving to a bigger tank, might set them off.

Good luck to us all. I've been planning on investing a nice lump sum of money into purchasing high quality adult discus and I wonder- does anyone have a decent group of discus (10-20) that have all survived for a very long time?

Heidi. Being in the hobby for awhile makes us realize how easily complications can arise with discus. All we can do is try and give them the best care we possibly can and hope that they do us well. Factors like keeping discus in large groups, bare bottom tanks, water changes, etc, etc, etc, etc, will keep them well and stress free, but then there is always the possibility of something still going wrong.
This can be greatly reduced by starting with good clean stock. I was lucky to be able to come across such a group which were purchased at only a couple months old, and now see them going over two years old and still doing very well. That doesn't mean that l can ease off with their care, knowing that i can enjoy them while they are trouble free.

I hope that you can find what you are looking for and like me enjoy the hobby to its fullest.



Good luck

[HappyFace]

Heidi. Being in the hobby for awhile makes us realize how easily complications can arise with discus. All we can do is try and give them the best care we possibly can and hope that they do us well. Factors like keeping discus in large groups, bare bottom tanks, water changes, etc, etc, etc, etc, will keep them well and stress free, but then there is always the possibility of something still going wrong.
This can be greatly reduced by starting with good clean stock. I was lucky to be able to come across such a group which were purchased at only a couple months old, and now see them going over two years old and still doing very well. That doesn't mean that l can ease off with their care, knowing that i can enjoy them while they are trouble free.

I hope that you can find what you are looking for and like me enjoy the hobby to its fullest.



Good luck

Thank you Joe. Good luck to you too. I hope your 2 year olds live to be 20.