Discus Got Big Without Much Effort

[CammieTime]

I'm curious as to how common this is. Five years ago I was trying to grow out some 2.5" discus, including a dominant blue diamond. I was doing daily 100% water changes. Eventually I burned out doing daily water changes, and the demands of life forced me to give it up and put the fish (now about 3.5") into my 75 gallon discus tank with my other discus, and hope for the best. With just 2 feedings a day and twice weekly water changes that blue diamond grew to at least 5.5 inches in the ensuing year. I did literally nothing extra to get him big, it was no additional work at all and I ended up with a nice sized fish. Is this normal?

[bluelagoon]

I think for the most part that would be the size they would usually get without good maintenance 4.5-5-5"....5.5" is ok if it was a small female.

[Hart24601]

I don't think anyone can really answer with certainty. Maybe it would be 6.5" now, or maybe not. Very possible the fish would have been exactly the same size but perhaps would have gotten there faster.

Depends a lot on the tank chemistry during the entire lifespan. I do think that the 2 feedings a day and not being raised with other small fish help. When most people get 2.5" fish they get quite a few and want to grow then fast and inexpensively so they feed many times a day and to save money they use messy beefheart. All that load into the tank and in (and out of) the fish means big W/C are in order. Even when growing the majority of food will be eliminated as waste. I doubt 2 feeding a day stunts growth, just makes it take longer.

It's not like huge daily W/C is always a requirement, just it's known to work, and so it's a safe default especially as I said many people are growing quite a few fish out and powerfeeding. For example no way any filter can handle 10 3" fish being fed 5x per day so they get stunted.

True measured 5.5" total length is larger than any discus I have even seen locally in my extended fish friend network. People around here are thrilled with 4" discus, so something went right! It's not like 2x waterchanges a week are terrible, that is far more than most people do in general.

[Larry Bugg]

How about a pic of the fish? At least 5.5 inch would lead me to believe it hasn't actually been measured and typically we guess on the bigger side. That said, while 5.5" is below average it is on the large size of a stunted discus. I know a lot of people that would be very happy with a 5.5" discus. I don't know anyone who has seen nice discus that would be thrilled with 4" discus. This was not the only discus you were growing out so how big did the others get?

I'm not a believer in "power" feeding. Two feedings a day will certainly grow nice discus. I also don't believe you will significantly grow discus faster by giving them more feedings a day. That would be like saying if I fed my daughter 7 times a day she would grow faster. She might grow fatter but I don't believe she would grow taller faster. I think, depending on our genetics, that we (and all living beings) can only grow so fast. You do have a limited time to get the discus grown so it does need adequate water and food to reach it's potential in that time.

The large water changes are not just because we feed messy foods like beef heart. I don't feed beef heart but I am a believer in large water changes. From experience I can tell you that without them my discus will end up stunted. How big and how often are certainly based on bio load so my 90% daily changes may not be necessary for someone with the same size tank and only 6 discus in it but it needs to be often enough to ensure that bacteria and other pathogens are not present in the tank. Discus and in particular young discus cannot handle the presence of these in the water and this is the main reason for the large water changes. Filters simply do not remove these pathogens from the water since the water constantly runs right through them in the filter media.

[warblad79]

Yeah 5.5" is not that really big...My smallest breeding female is 6.5" and the rest of her siblings are 7.75"....But of course they get daily WC 100%-150% when they were fry up to juvies and 70%-100% when reached adults. Also my feedings is 4x-6x a day and using only high protein food such as homemade beefheart mix, freeze dried blackwork, Discus Tropical Granule, and flakes.

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[Hart24601]

How about a pic of the fish? At least 5.5 inch would lead me to believe it hasn't actually been measured and typically we guess on the bigger side. That said, while 5.5" is below average it is on the large size of a stunted discus. I know a lot of people that would be very happy with a 5.5" discus. I don't know anyone who has seen nice discus that would be thrilled with 4" discus. This was not the only discus you were growing out so how big did the others get?

I'm not a believer in "power" feeding. Two feedings a day will certainly grow nice discus. I also don't believe you will significantly grow discus faster by giving them more feedings a day. That would be like saying if I fed my daughter 7 times a day she would grow faster. She might grow fatter but I don't believe she would grow taller faster. I think, depending on our genetics, that we (and all living beings) can only grow so fast. You do have a limited time to get the discus grown so it does need adequate water and food to reach it's potential in that time.

The large water changes are not just because we feed messy foods like beef heart. I don't feed beef heart but I am a believer in large water changes. From experience I can tell you that without them my discus will end up stunted. How big and how often are certainly based on bio load so my 90% daily changes may not be necessary for someone with the same size tank and only 6 discus in it but it needs to be often enough to ensure that bacteria and other pathogens are not present in the tank. Discus and in particular young discus cannot handle the presence of these in the water and this is the main reason for the large water changes. Filters simply do not remove these pathogens from the water since the water constantly runs right through them in the filter media.

Dang man, your daughter is a cold blooded fish?

So you believe the reason for stunting is pathogens in the water?

Keep in mind they said this was 1 year of growth which puts them on track for discus Hans growth rate he has specified in the past and the 2.5” fish in the OP was not cherry picked from 100 other fish as it grew for max size.

[Larry Bugg]

Dang man, your daughter is a cold blooded fish?

So you believe the reason for stunting is pathogens in the water?

Keep in mind they said this was 1 year of growth which puts them on track for discus Hans growth rate he has specified in the past and the 2.5” fish in the OP was not cherry picked from 100 other fish as it grew for max size.

I read her post to say that they grew to that size in a year after she gave up. I don't know how long she had them before that but if they were 3.5" then they were at minimum 3 or 4 months old. She said in the "ensuing year" which would be after.......

I believe that a LARGE % of the problems growing out discus comes from pathogens in the water due to left over food and detritus. I can feed my grow outs multiple times a day and limit the amount of water I change and get sub par growth. I can feed twice to three times a day and do large daily water changes and the growth is greatly improved. Keep in mind that discus come from areas of the Amazon with very low ph. Bacteria does not exits in most of this low ph water. Now we put them in our tanks and the warm water is a breeding ground for bacteria. It causes multitudes of problems. I also breed angels and find the same to be true with them. People come to my fish room and ask how I grow my angels so big. My response is that I treat them just as my discus and do large daily water changes. Lots of people don't realize their angels don't reach their potential. But it definitely happens with them also.

[Hart24601]

Ah that makes more sense to me, I have sponsor discus and changed 100 to 200% daily w/c and the largest are 6” a year later.

So in your opinion would passing the water though a nano membrane that sterilizes the water or treating and degassing with chlorine (like tap water) or using a very powerful UV sterilizer or ozone be the same as long as 100% of living organisms are killed? Or keeping them at very low ph to kill organisms as well?

[CammieTime]

First of all, I'm a guy, from Minnesota. Second of all, I agree that my "5.5 inch" fish did NOT achieve its maximum growth potential. It was definitely smaller than most standard adult discus, probably slightly stunted, but it was still big, much bigger than all "stunted" discus I've seen. This fish was however, rather large and well shaped for how little effort I put into it. It was a pretty, happy fish. I was just curious if anyone else had a similar experience putting minimal effort into a discus and ending up with a nice sized fish.

[warblad79]

First of all, I'm a guy, from Minnesota. Second of all, I agree that my "5.5 inch" fish did NOT achieve its maximum growth potential. It was definitely smaller than most standard adult discus, probably slightly stunted, but it was still big, much bigger than all "stunted" discus I've seen. This fish was however, rather large and well shaped for how little effort I put into it. It was a pretty, happy fish. I was just curious if anyone else had a similar experience putting minimal effort into a discus and ending up with a nice sized fish.

Mine is quite opposite considering my routine is very consistent. However, some of the fish that I bought didn't even reached 6". That led me to believe that genetic is also play a big part. My giant flora continues to grow even after 2 years.

[Filip]

There are many experiences on getting to 5 inch without the daily schedule .
There are so many variables and unknowns dictating the end result of this equation that its really hard to discuss what maters or don't matters regarding the optimal discus growth.
Genetics , Bioload , feeding , strains , water parameters , WC schedule , other maintenance and type of filtration etc.etc.

Here are some of our members journals with similar experiences :

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...mp-DISCUS-TANK

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...stGermandiscus

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...s-needed/page4