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Thread: beginners questions

  1. #1
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    Default beginners questions

    Hi Guys

    Thanks for adding me
    Iam in brisbane australia and just have a few questions about discus i was hoping to get clarified.


    Firstly i hear some people say 50% water change a day or every second day etc, The confusing part of this is why, why do we need to turn the water over constantly if your parameters are all zero. example zero ammonia, zero nitrites, zero nitrates.

    second question i hear is you can grow out discus with planted tanks, again why?

    lastly is about bare bottom and gravel, why is gravel such a issue, i hear its a big no no, but again if your parameter are ok, why its it a problem.

    I hear alot about these questions i have asked, but i dont get the real reason why to my questions.

    Thanks guys
    cheers Mark

  2. #2
    Silver Member Willie's Avatar
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    Willie

    Default Re: beginners questions

    There are many reasons for using bare bottom tanks, making large and frequent water changes and avoiding gravel to raise discus. In fact, every single hobbyist start with exactly the same concepts in mind. Some read up and decide to go with the experienced approach. Many disregard what they read and do what they want. I am always amused how many beginners start their first post with something like this. "Thanks to Simply for all this great information. I've been reading and studying up on discus for a year now. I'm setting up a biotope tank with some fry. Is 20% weekly water changes enough because my filter is rated for 2,000 gallons per hour...?"

    After reading all these posts, I doubt that a few more facts are going to sway people. Experienced hobbyists can attest that there is no way to raise young discus in a planted tank. There is no way to raise high quality fish without huge and frequent water changes. There are hobbyists here who consistently spawn their fish. There are others here who consistently show their discus and win awards. And there are those who raise discus in planted tanks.

    Good luck to you and prove us wrong, Willie
    At my age, everything is irritating.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: beginners questions

    sorry, iam confused
    Prove you wrong how.

  4. #4
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    Lucas Smith

    Default Re: beginners questions

    Nitrates are only one thing that we measure. You can have other water quality issues and have low nitrate.
    Plants and discus have opposite needs. The high temps that Discus thrive in will kill most plants.
    Gravel is a breeding ground for bacteria due to sloppy eating discus and their heavy bio load.
    Keep it simple for yourself to start. Get quality adult discus and keep them barebottom.
    If you want to see evidence of other outcomes go read the emergency room section. You will see what comes from substrate and lax water changes.

  5. #5
    Registered Member Bizarro252's Avatar
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    Default Re: beginners questions

    Bare Bottom, at least until you have them grown out is a must, these are messy fish that eat messy food.
    As others have said there are other reasons besides Nitrates you change you water, depending on feeding you need to change it more - when the Discus are growing you feed them a lot, means a lot of water changes.

    You will not, unless you have a very intricate, well cycled, low oxygen filtration system that can deal with Nitrate - have zero nitrate. You just wont, I promise. I have 6 discus in a 55 gal, my Nirates would gain 5-10ppm a day when I was growing them out.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: beginners questions

    second question i hear is you can grow out discus with planted tanks, again why?

    lastly is about bare bottom and gravel, why is gravel such a issue, i hear its a big no no, but again if your parameter are ok, why its it a problem.
    Juvenile discus are fed 3-4 times a day and produce a lot of waste. Waste causes a build up in Ammonia & Nitrites.
    In a planted tank or tank with substrate, its close to impossible to clean up all the waste as it tend to get hide near plant roots as well as behind plants or is small pockets of sand that the fish dig up where you can't see it.
    Hence its impossible to keep those water parameters you mentioned.

    Once they are grown up they do fine in planted tanks.

    The confusing part of this is why, why do we need to turn the water over constantly
    This confused me as well, when I was doing my research, but it seems that fresh water has nutrients that fish need and hence constant water changes help them get enough of it and avoid being stunted.

    sorry, ia m confused
    Prove you wrong how.
    Some of these guys are just annoyed, as every beginner will show up and ask the same question, inspite of a bunch of sticky threads that have already answered these questions.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: beginners questions

    Thank you so much for the responses.
    I asked questions in the beginners thread to hopefully not get under any ones skin.
    there is alot of information on how you should raise and keep discus but not so much specific to why we do it a specific way., there is also alot of contradicting information out there.
    I thought there may be more to gravel and plants than it being harder to clean. For example i thought plants might readily cause discus diseases or something like that, or the ferts for plants might be bad for discus.
    as for water changes, even in the sticky post it didnt really mention anything regarding nutrients in the water, just mentions you should do them frequently. so Thank you Hidan for that information.

    Sorry for annoying anyone, it wasnt my intention, i was just trying to clarify in my own head to why we do things certain ways.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: beginners questions

    Don't apologize and keep asking all the questions you think of. Ignore anyone who gets annoyed, coz its better you get all the information you need by asking questions than by losing discus from avoidable mistakes and quitting on the hobby or even just discus. (Lets be honest they are not cheap fish).

    I thought there may be more to gravel and plants than it being harder to clean.
    There are situations where plants can bring in pathogens or parasites into a tank. There are also issues where waste gets trapped under sand/gravel and forms ammonia bubbles and when you gravel vacuum the tank, you may end up releasing a burst of ammonia into the tank, which can be disastrous for discus.

    I will be honest I also wanted to start with a planted tank (they look so spectacular with discus), however the articles and the helpful people here convinced me it wasn't a good idea until the discus are fully grown.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: beginners questions

    I'll add my 2 cents for what its worth.

    1. Water changes - Lots of people on this site swear by beefheart and other homemade food recipes that they believe result in larger discus. Beefheart is very messy and fouls our tank very quickly. As such, nitrates rise quickly when feeding this. Do your research on this and act accordingly. Some scientific articles say beefheart contains certain proteins not found in many other fish foods resulting in better growth rates, other articles state that since beefheart is from a land mammal, the fats and proteins can't be properly broken down and absorbed by discus and result in higher lipid levels in the fish's liver resulting in stress, disease, and death. There are other ways to reduce water changes as well, low ph, lower bio-loads, vacuuming out any uneaten food, etc. However, water changes are a must and there are very few, if any, ways to get around this. The old mantra is: You don't keep discus, you keep water. And it is very true. You will learn more about water parameters keeping discus second only to reefkeepers.

    2. Planted tanks - Most beginners are steered away from planted tanks due to difficulty. As others have stated, high heat and other water parameters aren't ideal environments to grow plants. Basically, just keep it simple when you're first starting out and as you get more comfortable with discus and keeping water parameters stable, then look into a planted tank.

    3. Substrates - gravel is a big no-no, it traps all sorts of detritus and serves as a breeding ground for bacteria. Also, discus tend to be very passive eaters, often letting food drop to the bottom of the tank before going down and blowing it up off the bottom and eating it. In a gravel tank, that food would become trapped among the pebbles and end up fouling your water. Bare bottom is the easiest, however a thinly sanded bottom isn't that bad. Most prefer pool filter sand, since it is a courser grain size, and thus easier to vacuum.

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