Help! Stress or sick?

[LJC123]

Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?

"Hi all, we need help. We have had Discus forever and had our ups and downs, but have successfully raised 5 Cobalts to full-sized from dime-sized. We also have 4 adult Red Turq's, one of whom we raised from 2" and is now 7 years old.*

A couple months ago, we moved them into a 75g temporary tank to rebuild their 92g corner to install a drip irrigation system and to fully plant it as well. Their previous home (the 92g) had only sand and plastic plants but we've always read that they are so much happier in a planted tank and we really wanted that ourselves so we finally decided to do it. We moved everybody to the 75g and tore down their 92g, cleaned everything, plumbed it for the drip irrigation, and planted it. We were advised by several people to not add our Discus back into their original 92g tank until it had cycled just the way we did it…1 week substrate, 1 week plants, 1 week hardy fish, 1 week more fish, then Discus.

While in the temp tank, our oldest RT started displaying her bars constantly (she's always been emotional that way when stressed) but there wasn't much we could do because we needed to cycle their new home for a couple weeks. It was nail-biting to wait but everything we read and were told said to wait.

*After moving, cleaning and plumbing the 92g, we added Miracle Grow, Eco-Complete and sand @ 1" each. We had done several water changes to clear out any impurities from disturbing the substrates during planting and cycled that for 2 weeks before we added our 12+ Tetras to help with the cycling and they are all doing well. Then after another week we added our 6 Chocolate and 6 Honey Gourami's and they are all doing well. Before each addition, we did water changes and added Stress Coat and Stress Zyme. We also moved filters around to help with bio-stability.

After another week and another WC, we moved our Discus back into their original 92g home.
Immediately our oldest RT turned completely black, clamped up, and just plain looked like she was dying. That was 3 weeks ago and though she's still alive, she's always dark, has very angry bars like I've never seen on her, and barely eats.*

We gave her 2 weeks to get used to the changes, then decided to move her to our hospital tank, where we keep the lights low and have plants around the edges to provide a visual buffer from activity in the house. It has the sand bottom and plastic plants that were in their old tank, to bring her comfort, hoping some quiet time would do her some good. She is no longer clamped or as dark, but still has those wicked bars and is very picky about eating.

Everyone else in the main tank (92g) had seemed fine all along...until the day after we moved her out. That's when we noticed one of our Cobalt's practically laying on the bottom. We quickly moved him into the QT tank also.

Though our RT looks a bit better to not be alone, the Cobalt has not improved.*

What am I missing?"


2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills,*white/yellow/green poop, hiding,*headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus,*blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).


"Red Turq: bars out, dark, clamped, picky eating
Cobalt: dark, clamped, not eating, hiding, laying on bottom at 45* angle"


3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.

"50%+WC's weekly, including constant drip irrigation before moving them to a hospital tank where we do daily 50% wc's. Stress Coat & Stress Zyme per instructions."


Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.

"92G corner with 12 Tetras, 6 Chocolate & 6 Honey Gourami's, 2 Balloon Rams and 4 Cory's & 2 2" plecos for clean-up."

5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).

"Constant drip irrigation, weekly 50% and daily 50% for hospital tank".


6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?

"6 weeks this round, 2 years since we bought it used. Miracle Grow, Eco-Complete and sand @ 1" each. Cycled 4 weeks total."


7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.

"We live on a well so we don't do anything to our water before adding it to our tanks. We had learned that our fish are much happier once they acclimated to our water as is (usually a constant 7.4) instead of us struggling to maintain a better ph with additives and all that."


8. Parameters and water source;

Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.

- temp 83*

- ph L-7.6 or less, H-7.4

- ammonia reading 0

- nitrite reading 0

- nitrate reading almost 5.0

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- well water 100%

- municipal water ____

- RO water ____

9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.

"New plants & the Cory's"


10. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem so be as specific as you can.

"Blood worms or beef heart with Tetra Crisps or Flakes (for the Tetras) in the morning and usually brine shrimp with crisps or flakes in the evening."


11. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.

"All of this is copied from my FB post in SD @ <https://www.facebook.com/groups/795034917244072/>

[LJC123]

Please help, I'm not sure if my Cobalt will make it through the night. He looks really bad, worse since the pics.

[RuinerM3]

Looks as his slime coat is peeling, his fins are clamped, and he has some fin rot. I would presume something bacterial, hopefully someone with much more expertise can chime in and help you out!

[Cosmo]

Looks as his slime coat is peeling, his fins are clamped, and he has some fin rot. I would presume something bacterial, hopefully someone with much more expertise can chime in and help you out!

I was thinking the same thing and if they were my fish I'd do a round of antibiotics - which ones to suggest to others though????

WHERE ARE ALL THE AMINS AND SICKNESS PEOPLE????? THESE PEOPLE NEED HELP

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Laura, I am not a disease expert but have some observations. The RT in the pics above is your oldest RT and seven years old? It could be that she is at the end of her life. She appears thin in the pics and you are right, the very dark bars signals an unhappy fish. I honestly do not think medicating will help her and it could actually kill her.

No sure about the cobalt. It appears to have either rubbed it's self on something or is shedding it's slime coat.

Can you post pics of the cobalt? What does it look like now? Are you experiencing a mini-cycle in the hospital tank?
Pat

[Loku]

Seems to be Oodinium, look for it and the best treatment for me is with seachem cupramine.

[Second Hand Pat]

Seems to be Oodinium, look for it and the best treatment for me is with seachem cupramine.

Would't Oodinium cover the entire fish?
Pat

[LJC123]

Hi, guys,

We raised the temp in the QT tank the 2 are in and treated with Prazi, fearing that the stress from all the moving around and new additions made them succesable to bacteria or parasites. We also wanted to cover that base because of the damaged slimecoat in the Cobalt. We think it was from netting him because he did not go peacefully Anyway, they are doing sooooo much better! The Cobalt is swimming upright, moving around in the open with the RT, and he's light blue enough that we can actually see his bars (which would usually not be a goal, right, but it's better than almost black!)

The RT has unclamped her fins and reduced the feriocity of her bars, but is still skinny. She tries to eat, but her mouth closes right before the food gets close enough, so it moves away from her and she just gives up. We just gave her earth worms, which is her crack, and the same thing happened. We have thought that at 7, she may be at the end of her life, but I know they can live up to 10 years and we were obviously hoping for that. She is our favorite and most like a pet, eating from our hands and even allowing us to pet her by rubbing against our hands if we hold them still and wait a minute. She is the first one that we raised from silver dollar sized and I honestly will cry when she passes.
That said, is there anything we can do to make her more comfortable in her old age or how long should we let her decline like this?

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Laura, on the RT sounds like her eye sight is affected. If you look at her head on note how razor thin she is. She has been in a state of decline for a while. You might try feeding her by hand or stick food to the side of the tank so it can't move like FDBWs.
Pat

[LJC123]

Hi, guys,

We raised the temp in the QT tank the 2 are in and treated with Prazi, fearing that the stress from all the moving around and new additions made them succesable to bacteria or parasites. We also wanted to cover that base because of the damaged slimecoat in the Cobalt. We think it was from netting him because he did not go peacefully Anyway, they are doing sooooo much better! The Cobalt is swimming upright, moving around in the open with the RT, and he's light blue enough that we can actually see his bars (which would usually not be a goal, right, but it's better than almost black!)

The RT has unclamped her fins and reduced the feriocity of her bars, but is still skinny. She tries to eat, but her mouth closes right before the food gets close enough, so it moves away from her and she just gives up. We just gave her earth worms, which is her crack, and the same thing happened. We have thought that at 7, she may be at the end of her life, but I know they can live up to 10 years and we were obviously hoping for that. She is our favorite and most like a pet, eating from our hands and even allowing us to pet her by rubbing against our hands if we hold them still and wait a minute. She is the first one that we raised from silver dollar sized and I honestly will cry when she passes.
That said, is there anything we can do to make her more comfortable in her old age or how long should we let her decline like this?

[LJC123]

Thank you, Pat. I will difinately try that sticking to the glass thing, except IDK how to make it stick? When we noticed the sight issue, we began larger feedings, more often and she seems to be doing better. I found some beef heart flakes and they're huge and she's actually been able to catch some. I'm overfeeding the tank, but what's a few more WC's to keep her around longer?
We moved them both home Sunday and they're both so much happier. Going to buy some driftwood this week, too.
Thank you all for your help!

[Second Hand Pat]

You can buy cubes of FWBWs and press the cube to the glass under the water line. Here's a link if interested https://www.aquaticsuppliers.com/Fre...d-foods_c2.htm. These are sold by Al the owner of this forum. My fish go nuts for them.
Pat