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Thread: Help Needed with CO2 Set Up

  1. #16
    Registered Member lastflea's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help Needed with CO2 Set Up

    Quote Originally Posted by Branch View Post
    Filip/Lastflea thanks for the input. I did buy LED in the end 6500K white, red and blue (Interpet Tri Spec High Output LED system for 5" tank) amazing difference plus the 3 T8s are still there to boost the spectrum. The discus, as opposed to being freaked, seemed to enjoy the additional lighting everything is coming together with Nitrates now under 10ppm. I've not got the C02 system yet and will monitor the results as things stand at the moment. One question; how much light intensity is lost through condensation trays over the tank I remember my marine tank was open and the halides were very effective especially with the accropora?

    Filip I must take my hat off to you for the diligence you applied treating your fish it must have been an anxious time, not to mention time consuming. Branch
    Hi Branch. Am pretty confident you'll see some fairly rapid improvements with that unit. If algae starts to appear then reduce your daytime setting. If you get the controller you can simulate sunrise and sunset, which aside from being pretty awesome, will benefit the plants and reduce the risk of algae. It's definitely a trial and error game, like anything in fish keeping, but I reckon this is set up will be more forgiving than others.

    Glass will always deflect light to some degree, but not too drastically. However much that happens, maybe 5/10%, you'll see improvements. If you're happy with growth then happy days. If not then really there's only two things you can do: Lower the unit by taking off the stand and setting it on a thin layer of polystyrene at each end, or remove the trays. Keeping them clean will help a little.

  2. #17
    Homesteader Filip's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help Needed with CO2 Set Up

    Quote Originally Posted by lastflea View Post
    Hi Filip, yes I agree light intensity is more important, but 6500k gives balance between white, red and blue, so I'd disagree that it has little consequence. Some people prefer bluer light at around 10000k, and still manage success in planted tanks, others prefer 4000k. Surely if plants are looking more natural, it's because they're getting a more natural source of day light at 6500k? My advice was intended to simplified and PAR, PUR and lumens do tend to complicate things. 6500k is a very good starting point, and as mentioned, the lumens are pre determined by the manufacturer based on how wide the tank is. If I've annoyed you in any way, my apologies, that wasn't the intention...

    Branch, I just realised you've bought a co2 kit for $750? Honestly, this isn't needed for swords and anubius. Root tabs are key to swords, not co2. And the right light of course. Good luck, what ever you decide
    Not offended at all by a civil discussion Rob.
    Just want to help you clear your misconception about Kelvins as an factor for plant grow .
    They don't indicate the spectrum nor the wavelenght of a specific bulb . You can have 2 bulbs with same Kelvin range and totally different spectrum range , and you can also have 2 bulbs with totally different kelvin range I.e. 2700 and 10000 kelvins , and yet same spectrum distribution (radiation wavelength ).

    There are professional plant grow bulbs on the market that range 2700 K and there are professional plant grow bulbs with 10000 k .
    In fact most of the professional plant grow bulbs have red - pink hue and 2700 K .

    Rated Kelvins are not relevant indicator to guide from when choosing plant grow bulbs . Spectral distribution (wave length ) and light intensity(lumens) are .
    Here is one of many threads on this subject you can find online :

    http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=37501

  3. #18
    Homesteader Filip's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help Needed with CO2 Set Up

    Nice choice Branch . You don't go cheap at all , when it comes to your hooby and passion .

    Just be carefull of algae in this initial period and dont exceed 6-8 hours full intensity photoperiod as Rob already suggested.
    As for condensation trays , just keep them clean and don't worry about the condensation too much . They ussualy dry out due to heat emitted by lights during the photoperiod and get soaking wet only during the nights . Anyway you can't loose more than 10 % so its not something to worry about .
    Just out of curiosity about your light.
    How many LEDs by each group - white , red and blue Leds do you have on the fixture ?

  4. #19
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    Default Re: Help Needed with CO2 Set Up

    Thanks Rob and Filip.

    No I always believe that you should buy the best of what you can afford especially on a hobby that you love and spend so much time on, and as you know discus are demanding. I was actually wondering whether I should put 2 LED systems in just tom make should however it is a rather big outlay... No algae as yet after a week so fingers crossed it won't be too much of a problem my big concern was the loss of light through the condensation trays which you both think is minimal.

    I believe, but will check tomorrow, that the unit has 29 LEDs split between red, blue and white, sound about right? what are your thoughts on the Interpet unit? Branch

  5. #20
    Registered Member lastflea's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help Needed with CO2 Set Up

    Quote Originally Posted by Filip View Post
    Not offended at all by a civil discussion Rob.
    Just want to help you clear your misconception about Kelvins as an factor for plant grow .
    They don't indicate the spectrum nor the wavelenght of a specific bulb . You can have 2 bulbs with same Kelvin range and totally different spectrum range , and you can also have 2 bulbs with totally different kelvin range I.e. 2700 and 10000 kelvins , and yet same spectrum distribution (radiation wavelength ).

    There are professional plant grow bulbs on the market that range 2700 K and there are professional plant grow bulbs with 10000 k .
    In fact most of the professional plant grow bulbs have red - pink hue and 2700 K .

    Rated Kelvins are not relevant indicator to guide from when choosing plant grow bulbs . Spectral distribution (wave length ) and light intensity(lumens) are .
    Here is one of many threads on this subject you can find online :

    http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=37501
    Hey Filip. I read the link, but to be honest it's just confusing me. Everything I read about the right type of light for planted tanks refers to colour/hue, rated kelvins. Not digging my heels in here, I don't wear them, but surely kelvins should be considered if plants only absorb certain colours during photosynthesis? I'm not saying plants can't grow in 10000k, 2700k, but more that it's easier to grow them successfully at 6500k. Would I be right in saying there is broader scope for error in wave length and lumens if the rated kelvins are 6500k? This seems a fair argument when I read something like this:

    https://www.drsfostersmith.com/pic/a...?articleid=940

  6. #21
    Homesteader Filip's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help Needed with CO2 Set Up

    Simply put , people recognise the colours of the light source in Kelvins (6500 K AKA daylight being most preferred by a human eye for natural colours ) .
    Plants recognise / use colours in Nanometers NM - radiation wavelength (red and blue radiation spectum ends expressed in Nanometers being most preferred )

    Tottaly different and individual parameters , measurements and qualities of the light source .

    Plants prefer blue (430-480 nm )light and red (650-730 nm ) part of the wavelength spectrum .
    Whether and how much of each of this colours does one bulb contains , you can not detect by reading its Kelvin rating.
    Last edited by Filip; 04-26-2018 at 05:56 AM.

  7. #22
    Homesteader Filip's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help Needed with CO2 Set Up

    Quote Originally Posted by Branch View Post

    I believe, but will check tomorrow, that the unit has 29 LEDs split between red, blue and white, sound about right? what are your thoughts on the Interpet unit? Branch
    There is very little info and reviews on this light online Branch. I guess its a fairly new and still unproven product among the hobbists.
    I guess you have the biggest size available 116-124 Cm length . I found some data online that Claims 57 Watts total power and honestly that sounds too little for your monster 25 inch deep tank to me .
    Only time will tell I guess. But I would def. Run them along with your current neon bulbs.
    Last edited by Filip; 04-26-2018 at 07:05 AM.

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    Default Re: Help Needed with CO2 Set Up

    Hi Filip, to answer yesterday's question the LEDs are as follows; 6 red, 6 blue and 17 white = 29 total 6,500K but I'm not going to get into the middle of that one with you and Rob. So there's 3 x 40W T8s and the LED unit. Would an additional LED unit be a good option? The condensation trays are always kept clean but by their very nature fogged over by condensation. If I were to remove them the wooden hood would likely rot as when I've left a tray open the moisture is dripping off the hood. Still no sign of the C02 unit....Branch

  9. #24
    Homesteader Filip's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help Needed with CO2 Set Up

    @Branch , one LED unit along with your neon bulbs would suffice IMO . If algae starts to form start turning off your neon bulbs one by one every 2-3 weeks according to the results , until you hit the sweet spot .

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    Default Re: Help Needed with CO2 Set Up

    Hi Filip, problems the LED system blew, returned to shop and replaced, the LED driver was very hot? The second one has also blown same problem! As my tank is enclosed and the condensation trays are resting 20mm from the LED strip do you think the system is overheating? Surely the system was designed to rest over the tank as the brackets have sliding ends to lock onto the side of the frame? Have left the lid open to see if the heat dissipates as I've now got a third in place and the driver as well as the light strip is very warm. Help!

  11. #26
    Homesteader Filip's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help Needed with CO2 Set Up

    Sorry for my delayed response Branch . I guess you have already solved the problem by now .
    LEDs are mostly designed for open top tanks and not very suitable to run them under the tank hood.
    2 Cm distance give them very little space to ventilate even if you have cooler / ventilator units installed on your canopy .
    LEDs emits a lot of heat and you will need to consider installing ventilation units on both ends of the canopy , one to provide fresh and cold air , and other one to take out the heat from inside out .

  12. #27
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    Default Re: Help Needed with CO2 Set Up

    Hi Filip, hey no worries I check daily on the posts to see if I can anyone and likewise look at mine. I gathered that there was a lack of heat dissipation and removed the front section of the canopy which has solved the problem albeit it's not as pretty looking down on an open top when the design was spectacular before. It's been another trying week due to 3 of the fish not eating and hiding in the corner of the tank, indicating some sort of internal parasite likely Hex as I saw one with stringy white feces. Apart from dosing the tank with Prazi, it has in the past cured worms in my Wilds, I've just kept the feeding consistent and water changes frequent. After all the years I've kept discus I don't like to rush with meds etc I have found that pristine water and patience is a better way to go. The fish aren't dark or stressed just reclusive. My QT/hospital tank is there for emergencies however the thought of trying to capture the fish in a planted environment isn't appealing. What's your experience with intestinal parasites and treatment thereof? Branch

  13. #28
    Homesteader Filip's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help Needed with CO2 Set Up

    Ive had some non eating grown discus that came back eating on their own after a month of fasting or maybe even more . They did not have any poop during the fasting period though .
    When I see white-Hex poop/ intestinal lining I usually transfer them to QT and Start with heat treatment (34-35 C ) for 7 days .than I give them a break for 5 days with normal temp and observe. If that doesn't help I proceede with Metronidazole and heat for 10 days .

  14. #29
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    Default Re: Help Needed with CO2 Set Up

    That makes sense however I'm going to observe them over the next few days as I've not seen white poop in the Wild Blue just a PB. The HT is about ready just not too anxious to be chasing them around in the planted tank...

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