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Thread: small discus hatchery , ready to throw in the towel , due to gill flukes !

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    Default small discus hatchery , ready to throw in the towel , due to gill flukes !

    hello all
    i have operated a small hatchery for 30 years off and on .
    since i have well water i was rather successful , after a few years pause i started up again .
    initially i had some nice spawns and all was well , until i bought some new brood stock from a reputable supplier .
    since my quarantine tank was not big enough a was forced to put them in without quarantine ,(yes i know it was stupid )
    after having some actually spawning thing got real bad , about a month after i bought the fish i had all of a sudden oodinium , skinflukes and gill flukes .(dactilogyrus &gyrodactilus ).
    the oodinium was treated with heat , no problem.
    skin flukes we gone after one treatment of prazi pro .
    however it seems nothing will kill the gill flukes .
    i have been at it for half a year so far .
    i have tried every treatment so far and NOTHING kills them .
    PP so strong it was stressful for the discus did nothing .
    salt , nothing
    formalin malachite green had some success but is no longet available in canada .
    i tried prazi pro double strength , nothing
    i bought prazi powder 100%pure , nothing
    double strength , nothing .
    triple strength , nothing .
    dissolved in vodka , nothing
    even prazi dissolved in DMSO double the strength administered with half the water in the tanks did not kill the flukes .
    not after , one hr. 2 hrs. 6 hrs 12 hrs 24 hrs .
    confirmed by sacrificing juveniles and a post mortem examination .(you can't miss flukes under a microscope)
    it does not kill the flukes whatsoever and adult flukes survive which means that follow up treatment are already a failure before i started .
    i have some flubanol but it's 20 years old by now , since i never had to use it , also unavailable in canada anymore .
    i'm at the end of my tether and start thinking about a humane way to wipe out my whole operation , i don't want to sell any of the discus that have these flukes , that would be irresponsible .
    i just about read every article about gill flukes , but if there is anybody that is aware of a successful treatment i would like to get in contact .


    sorry for the long post but , i felt it was better to spell it all out beforehand .

    thanks .

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    Default Re: small discus hatchery , ready to throw in the towel , due to gill flukes !

    Find an aquatic vet. Some flukes need organophosphates.

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    Default Re: small discus hatchery , ready to throw in the towel , due to gill flukes !

    thank you for your response .
    i was loath to use organophosphates since i read it was toxic to discus .

    "A treatment of malachite and formalin may also be effective in combating Monogenea but the higher doses are most generally needed in order to be effective. Fluke-tabs are also effective in treating for Monogenea. They contain organophosphates which are effective in killing flukes but flukes eventually build up a resistance to them. Fluke-tabs should not be used on Discus and Catfish; they are toxic to those types of fish."
    i cut and past this from an article i read .

    do you personalty have experience with this treatment ?

    thank you !

    my vet knows virtually nothing about fish and i don't know where to go for an aquatic vet where i live .
    Last edited by klr-dude; 04-28-2018 at 02:47 PM.

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    Default Re: small discus hatchery , ready to throw in the towel , due to gill flukes !

    did anybody here ever use fluke tabs .

    i read that they are toxic to discus .

    Organophosphates certainly do eliminate monogenetic trematodes, (e.g.: Flukes), with varying effectiveness, but it is known that these Monogeneans can and DO develop resistance to the compounds. The unique, carbamate-pesticide portion of this compound is the important adjunct that enhances it's parasiticidal effect.

    Do not use on tropical fish from the Amazon River. Discuses are particularly sensitive. There is significant toxicity of the Carbamates to certain fish, most notably discus and Catfish, who may be affected adversely.

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    Registered Member 100fuegos's Avatar
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    Default Re: small discus hatchery , ready to throw in the towel , due to gill flukes !

    It may be worth to give Wormer Plus a try, it is Flubendzole based. Best results when disolved in DMSO or simple 96 % isopropyl alcohol.

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    Default Re: small discus hatchery , ready to throw in the towel , due to gill flukes !

    thank you for your reply .
    i have flubanol 5% but like i said it's 20 years old , it might have lost it's properties .
    i did not find a place in north america that sells it but it can be shipped out of the U.K.
    does anybody know what the shelf life of flubanol is ?
    does anybody know a source for flubanol in the U.S. or canada ?

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    Default Re: small discus hatchery , ready to throw in the towel , due to gill flukes !

    Quote Originally Posted by klr-dude View Post
    my vet knows virtually nothing about fish and i don't know where to go for an aquatic vet where i live .
    Try here first:

    https://www.aquavetmed.info/index.cfm?PID=6

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    Default Re: small discus hatchery , ready to throw in the towel , due to gill flukes !

    thank all of you for the replies .
    100fuegos suggested to look into wormer plus , a flubendazole based med.

    i talked to an other discus enthusiast here in ontario and lo and behold he told me about an aquarium supply store not even 3 minutes away from me , and i never heard of them before , according to their website they have it in stock .

    i will try this and let you guys know .

    hope this works for me .

    some other member thought maybe copper would be the way to go , i have no experience with that at all but it could be my fall back treatment if this fails .

    either way i will give updates as i go .

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    Registered Member bluelagoon's Avatar
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    Default Re: small discus hatchery , ready to throw in the towel , due to gill flukes !

    I live in Canada and have to buy some meds here.And are much cheaper than in Canada...http://www.jehmco.com/html/medications.html And here a little more expensive..http://angelsplus.com/Meds.htm

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    Default Re: small discus hatchery , ready to throw in the towel , due to gill flukes !

    i just bought some "wormer plus" from an aquarium supply store close by my house .

    https://angelfins.ca/

    they just moved in a new facility so things were not yet organised , they seem to have a lot of med's and food stuff .
    check out their web page !

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    Default Re: small discus hatchery , ready to throw in the towel , due to gill flukes !

    update :
    i did some massive water changes 2 x 90% and scrubbed all my tanks and the filter system to get rid of the praziquantel which did not work and had build up on all surfaces .
    i then ran a 2ppm. dose of PP .to clean my system .
    this morning i dosed wormer plus , a flubendazole based medication and only 10 hrs later there is a remarkable improvement .
    i'm cautiously optimistic that this actually does something .
    none of my juveniles shows the typical signs of flukes and no signs that the medication is bothering them either .
    do i finally see the end of this scourge ?

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    Default Re: small discus hatchery , ready to throw in the towel , due to gill flukes !

    The trick is that you have to break the life cycle of the gill fluke ,2 ppm of PP for about 4 hours ( depends on your bioload ) will kill the fluke in the tank and the fish but their eggs will survive , i got some success with 2 ppm on day 1 ,day 4 ,day 8 ,day 12 ,day 16 and day 20 also treat all your equipment ,net,bucket etc with 20 ppm separately to stop cross contamination.

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    Registered Member smsimcik's Avatar
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    Default Re: small discus hatchery , ready to throw in the towel , due to gill flukes !

    Quote Originally Posted by sayid View Post
    The trick is that you have to break the life cycle of the gill fluke ,2 ppm of PP for about 4 hours ( depends on your bioload ) will kill the fluke in the tank and the fish but their eggs will survive , i got some success with 2 ppm on day 1 ,day 4 ,day 8 ,day 12 ,day 16 and day 20 also treat all your equipment ,net,bucket etc with 20 ppm separately to stop cross contamination.
    You're on the right track Sayid. It takes multiple doses of an oxidizer like PP or formalin over a long period to wipe out flukes completely. Treating a few times with any fluke medication only knocks down the fluke population for a few days. It doesn't cure the problem for good.

    Andrew Soh's treatment for flukes is the only one I've ever found to be effective in curing a fluke infestation. It's described in this old thread, post#5. http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...409#post593409

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    Default Re: small discus hatchery , ready to throw in the towel , due to gill flukes !

    Quote Originally Posted by smsimcik View Post
    You're on the right track Sayid. It takes multiple doses of an oxidizer like PP or formalin over a long period to wipe out flukes completely. Treating a few times with any fluke medication only knocks down the fluke population for a few days. It doesn't cure the problem for good.

    Andrew Soh's treatment for flukes is the only one I've ever found to be effective in curing a fluke infestation. It's described in this old thread, post#5. http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...409#post593409
    spot on Steve

    Well i decided to go through the PP treatment along Andrew soh method, i did 2mg/l of PP on day 1, 4 , 7 ,11,14 in 20 g Q tank for 4 hours simultaneously treated the display tank with 20 mg/l of PP with all the equipment e.g hoses ,nets buckets etc to make sure that there is no cross contamination ,i gave minimum food and w/c of 90% every day ,i left the canister fillter on all the time but had couple of air stone on all the time ,there was a lot of oxidation in form of brown slug on the first few times but gradually both the display tank and the fish got cleaner and cleaner ,also i added 0.5 ml of normal salt to the tank after the w/c to take care of possible ammonia also help replenish the slime coat and stop possible infection , i am surprised how smooth it has gone ,i have not even experienced any stress ,after day 14 all my fish are breathing much much slower with much less effort ,i am going to increase the feed slowly and add the extra salt for 30 days more .i have treated the plants and the wood in a separate tank for 30 days and will gradually introduce it to the display tank.
    I am extremely happy with the outcome even though it is still too soon to judge .
    If any body has any comment/ question please let me know .

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    Registered Member jimg's Avatar
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    Default Re: small discus hatchery , ready to throw in the towel , due to gill flukes !

    I tried for a couple years every suggested treatment and none worked except the kursuri wormer plus. but, for it to wipe out the flukes i had to use it ,if I remember right, once every 3 - 4 weeks for at least 8 months. no need to remove filters just large wc after a few days. i do not like pp treatments on fish.
    Jim

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