Metro vs Metroplex

[Pices]

Almost forgot, thank you for your help
Patty

[Second Hand Pat]

Patty, when looking at her from the front does she seem thicker then normal. She appears massively swollen in the front view to me.
Pat

[Pices]

Yes she does. What does that mean?

[Pices]

Infection?

[Second Hand Pat]

Infection?

Yes and she has a massive internal infection. I had a wild do this and it did not survive. Not sure there is anything you can do. Are you currently treating with antibiotics?
Pat

[Pices]

We did metronidazole, salt, and Kanaplex. It sounds like she needs to be culled?

[Pices]

Do you think being egg-bound could cause this? If she couldn’t pass eggs, wouldn’t they become a source of infection?

[Second Hand Pat]

Do you think being egg-bound could cause this? If she couldn’t pass eggs, wouldn’t they become a source of infection?

I do not really know. Perhaps Al can shed some light on this.
Pat

[brewmaster15]

Patty its possible that this started with being egg bound or possibly there was a cyst or tumor. The swelling now is probably related to the infection..its ascites fluid. Its not a good sign and If you did nothing now the fish probably has only a few days.
I think you have done all you can.

Al

[Pices]

Thank you. I will put her out of her misery. I really do appreciate all your help. You guys have been great for sticking with me through this. You really tried your best. Time for some clove oil.
Patty

[hardcore_freak]

Thank you. I will put her out of her misery. I really do appreciate all your help. You guys have been great for sticking with me through this. You really tried your best. Time for some clove oil.
Patty

Hmm... Do you think the overall body swelling might be due water retention from the salt and previous medications?
Are you keen to try one last method?
Do a complete water change, put a mature male inside with her.
Observe her reactions for several days, any mating ritual, cleaning of surface etc.

There are three instances I bought females that were "few minutes" away from laying eggs.
They totally stopped eating for several weeks in my tank.
One of them started eating and laid eggs after I isolate her with another male few days ago...
Screenshot_2018-07-04-12-32-37-435_com.miui.gallery.jpg

I forgot to mention, I completely defrost my beef heart and disintegrate them in the water as bite-sized.

Screenshot_2018-07-04-13-15-06-811_com.miui.gallery.jpg

[shrinkwrap]

Pices, I realize your fish died. I just read this and saw you bought a microscope. I am willing to help members with microscopes diagnose parasites in poop. I don’t know if your fish died of this, but I learned to diagnose cryptobia iubilans by examining stool samples and have posted videos of what that looks like. It was confirmed by a vet for me. Cryptobia iubilans parasite is a common cause of chronic wasting disease in discus. My previous post is here:
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...ase&highlight=

At the NADA meeting 2018, Dr. Stephen Smith agreed that cryptobia iubilans is a common, if not the most common, cause of chronic wasting disease in discus. He spoke on the subject for 20-30 minutes. I believe it is one of the most common reasons people give up on discus. It is resistant to the usual treatments including all antibiotics, heat, low pH. It is a single cell flagellated parasite, not a bacteria nor a virus. Metronidazole is ineffective though often recommended. There are published veterinary articles suggesting that dimetridazole (not the same as metronidazole) and 2-amino-5-nitrothiazol may be effective. I was successful at using 2-amino-5-nitrothiazol to stop discus from dying from this infection. I confirmed a resolution of the stringy poop and a reduction but not elimination of the parasite count in the poop. These 2 chemicals are intermittently available in the US. Let me know if you need help with this.

There is much still unknown about this parasite. We should encourage Dr. Stephen Smith and others to continue their research. The problem is there is no money in researching cryptobia in discus and other fish are not affected in the same way by this parasite. If there were sufficient money invested treatments could be easily found. This is a parasite, not cancer! Alternatively, if other scientifically minded people like me, joined together with a generous breeder to supply test fish, we could design and execute studies of the suggested treatment options with very little money invested. I can provide details for those interested.
I would also suggest, for those who can afford it, to spend the $250-300 in a necropsy by a veterinary pathologist to confirm the characteristic granulomas in the stomach and intestines of discus suspected of dying of cryptobia. The only thing that can cause this that is currently known is mycobacterium and the pathologist knows how to tell the difference. The organism will not usually be found in a typical necropsy BTW, but the above findings are strong evidence according to the several pathologists I’ve used. One of the frustrating things about having a fish slowly starve itself to death over weeks and waste away is not knowing the cause. You can prove the cause if it’s cryptobia.
I bought a $200 Amscope microscope from Amazon and that is what I used to examine stool samples and diagnose cryptobia. This is not a huge amount in comparison to the amount many have invested in discus. I am willing help members learn to use it.

[Pices]

Hello,
Glad you saw my thread. I read yours too with much interest. I’ve seen what to look for now thanks to your thread and I am going to see if I can view some feces with my microscope of my other Discus that shared the same tank as my dead one which is in my freezer. I’ll post on your thread when I’m done.

Pices, I realize your fish died. I just read this and saw you bought a microscope. I am willing to help members with microscopes diagnose parasites in poop. I don’t know if your fish died of this, but I learned to diagnose cryptobia iubilans by examining stool samples and have posted videos of what that looks like. It was confirmed by a vet for me. Cryptobia iubilans parasite is a common cause of chronic wasting disease in discus. My previous post is here:
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...ase&highlight=

At the NADA meeting 2018, Dr. Stephen Smith agreed that cryptobia iubilans is a common, if not the most common, cause of chronic wasting disease in discus. He spoke on the subject for 20-30 minutes. I believe it is one of the most common reasons people give up on discus. It is resistant to the usual treatments including all antibiotics, heat, low pH. It is a single cell flagellated parasite, not a bacteria nor a virus. Metronidazole is ineffective though often recommended. There are published veterinary articles suggesting that dimetridazole (not the same as metronidazole) and 2-amino-5-nitrothiazol may be effective. I was successful at using 2-amino-5-nitrothiazol to stop discus from dying from this infection. I confirmed a resolution of the stringy poop and a reduction but not elimination of the parasite count in the poop. These 2 chemicals are intermittently available in the US. Let me know if you need help with this.

There is much still unknown about this parasite. We should encourage Dr. Stephen Smith and others to continue their research. The problem is there is no money in researching cryptobia in discus and other fish are not affected in the same way by this parasite. If there were sufficient money invested treatments could be easily found. This is a parasite, not cancer! Alternatively, if other scientifically minded people like me, joined together with a generous breeder to supply test fish, we could design and execute studies of the suggested treatment options with very little money invested. I can provide details for those interested.
I would also suggest, for those who can afford it, to spend the $250-300 in a necropsy by a veterinary pathologist to confirm the characteristic granulomas in the stomach and intestines of discus suspected of dying of cryptobia. The only thing that can cause this that is currently known is mycobacterium and the pathologist knows how to tell the difference. The organism will not usually be found in a typical necropsy BTW, but the above findings are strong evidence according to the several pathologists I’ve used. One of the frustrating things about having a fish slowly starve itself to death over weeks and waste away is not knowing the cause. You can prove the cause if it’s cryptobia.
I bought a $200 Amscope microscope from Amazon and that is what I used to examine stool samples and diagnose cryptobia. This is not a huge amount in comparison to the amount many have invested in discus. I am willing help members learn to use it.

[shrinkwrap]

Let me help if I can. I just purchased some dimetridazole as I know this battle is not over. the other chemical is harder to obtain at the moment. Vets have told me it's hard to get much useful data from frozen fish. Vets preserve them in a formalin solution...like in the movies. I have a discus in formalin on my shelf. it is one that was also infected. It could be necropsied now and would certainly show the same granulomas as the others did.
Best wishes.

[Pices]

Let me help if I can. I just purchased some dimetridazole as I know this battle is not over. the other chemical is harder to obtain at the moment. Vets have told me it's hard to get much useful data from frozen fish. Vets preserve them in a formalin solution...like in the movies. I have a discus in formalin on my shelf. it is one that was also infected. It could be necropsied now and would certainly show the same granulomas as the others did.
Best wishes.

Okay, thanks shrinkwrap. I wasn’t looking forward to opening up that fish and I’m a nurse! I had to get an eye dropper yesterday. Will do wc and grab 1st fresh Pooh that is made afterwards. I appreciate you sharing all the information here. It is definitely cause for concern. One question, what magnification did you have your microscope set at? The eye piece is 10 and we have up to 100X power. I don’t want to miss these bastards. Thanks for your assist.
Patty