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Thread: Paypal Rant (Troubling trend we should be aware of)

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    Administrator brewmaster15's Avatar
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    Angry Paypal Rant (Troubling trend we should be aware of)

    Hello all,
    Its been a while since I blogged here about anything. I have been too busy with other matters. I tossed around the idea of sharing a recent experience I had with paypal or not sharing it but I have opted to share it in the hopes that it saves someone else the problems I had and it informs hobbyists of what I see as a very troubling trend.

    I use paypal as my gateway for my AquaticSuppliers.com online store and this forum. I have used it for years and years. Its convenient and as most of you know, paypal is the payment of choice for most fish sellers here. This has never been an issue before but I am not so sure that we are not heading that way. My recent experience with paypal raises many flags.

    Paypal came out with a program a few years ago for small businesses called " Working Capital" Its a loan that they offer that is based on your paypal sales. Its an ideal loan for some small businesses because applying doesn't hurt your credit score and its easy to repay using an automatic deduction system. You choose at the loan agreement to have them deduct either 10%, 20% or 30 % from each of your sales until the note is paid off. Its automatic and thoughtless. The money is taken out the moment a sale is made. I used this system multiple times over the last 3 years for various amounts. Never a problem, Understand that I really liked this system.

    So heres where the issues start... I did as I have done in the past and recently finished paying a small loan, and went to apply again. I was declined.. I was really confused. There were no flags on my end, no issues with repayment. I had repaid the last loan way ahead of time. I gave it a day and tried again..same thing. Declined. One must understand that this loan system is based off a computer algorithm. The computer looks at your paypal receipts and profile and decides yes or no. You can call customer service but they have zero ability to over ride a decision. I'm honestly not sure what customer service does there because they only tell you to try again tomorrow. I guess thats worked for some people????? So I called and spoke to someone who thought maybe it was too soon from payoff. Give it a few days and try back... I did.. and again declined.. Several days go by and I call again. I get another person who indicates they can't tell me exactly why I was declined but to check my profile on paypal....there may be an issue there...WHAT? nothing has changed but I did.. I found one minor thing that I had Customer service there fix, and tried again..Still no go. Declined loan.

    I have quite a few of these notices now...

    20180511_153348_resized.jpg

    I search the net and found a few references to others being declined for various reasons that really had nothing to do with anything I may encounter. I tried a few more days each time getting the declined message. I finally got royally ticked and called Customer service, who again suggested I try again tomorrow. I got a manager on the line and complained about how I kept getting declined but no one would tell me exactly why. And that I was through with trying and just going with another loan product elsewhere and I was looking into not working with Paypal at all anymore. She was more helpful. The reason why I was declined was because of my Industry. You'd think they would provide a list of approved industries but they don't and won't tell you which is or isn't Sometime in the last year Paypal Working Capital changed their policies that they no longer give loans to Businesses that deal with Pets or Pet Supplies. I was floored...Seriously? I sell FISH FOOD and run a forum. She was sympathetic but said that Paypal lumps Pets and supplies together. She mentioned there are alot of heated debates on Pets now and for now its been added to the non-approved category. She suggested I try again latter as it could change but she had no idea when or even if.

    So basically I could have applied every day from here to whenever and wasted my time, it would not have mattered. Buts thats how they treat their applicants. I have since received a separate letter for each application that said the same bs.Killed a few trees there I will tell you. I find it very hypocritical that Paypal has no qualms about taking their paypal fees out of every transaction made on my storefront, but their Loan Program has blacklisted Businesses in the Pets and Pet supply industry with no explanation or justfication. It raises alot of questions as to whats next.

    To say I have a very bitter taste in my mouth is an understatement. I wasted days just trying to learn what the problem was, and finally come to find out the reason I was declined wasn't for financial reasons or problems with credit or previous repayment issues.. It was simply that I sell PET SUPPLIES,, more specifically I sell FISH FOOD and a have a Fish FORUM. It doesn' matter if the Business is solid and dependable and has a good reputation.

    I am still incredulous that this has happened. I opted to share this because I think its important that people know what kind of a business Paypal is, and because some of you operate small businesses related to this wonderful hobby of Fish Keeping. I find it very disturbing that some idiot in Management at Paypal determined that businesses in Pets and Pet Supply sectors are not good enough to be treated fairly like other sectors. Instead they have determined we are somehow a poor sector to support, Its a terrible way to do business and terrible way to treat your customers.

    I am lucky that I had other options available to me, but I wasted alot of time just trying to get a straight answer. I have ZERO respect for Paypal at this point.

    I hope this helps some other businesses out there having issues and not even getting answers from Paypal, and that you all have a better appreciation for what paypal thinks of our Hobby.

    Al
    Last edited by brewmaster15; 05-12-2018 at 06:03 AM.
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    Administrator and MVP Dec.2015 Second Hand Pat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Paypal Rant (Troubling trend we should be aware of)

    You know Al, it is sort of a no brainer to update a software algorithm to output a more specific message other then denied. It had to be updated to exclude Pet Supplies after all. Also Paypal Working Capital should be required to publish their policies on businesses they exclude. So what is next, is Paypal going to exclude payments for pet related products??
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    Administrator brewmaster15's Avatar
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    Default Re: Paypal Rant (Troubling trend we should be aware of)

    Quote Originally Posted by Second Hand Pat View Post
    You know Al, it is sort of a no brainer to update a software algorithm to output a more specific message other then denied. It had to be updated to exclude Pet Supplies after all. Also Paypal Working Capital should be required to publish their policies on businesses they exclude. So what is next, is Paypal going to exclude payments for pet related products??
    Pat
    Thats was one of the things I wondered Pat. At what point does the policy move from Their " Working Capital "Loan Program to main stream paypal policy. That would affect alot of hobbyists and Businesses. My guess it will not get to that point but if they are stupid enough to lob Pets and Pet supplies together, who knows what the bright sparks in Management will decide.

    Its also really irritating that they think there is something wrong with businesses that sell pets and fish and supplies for them. How many people here alone have a pet, fish, animal companion, livestock? Its not a crime to do so, nor is it an unsavory business in general. I am sure things like puppy Mills and poor quality zoos play into the decision but its a really Dumb decision made by people that obviously have no clue.

    al
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    Moderator Team and MVP Apr. 2016 rickztahone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Paypal Rant (Troubling trend we should be aware of)

    I was never aware of the program but it is disheartening to know that there is exclusion based on a certain business platform or goods.

    What do you believe may have led to this? Do you think they may have taken large losses with other sellers that sell these pet related products?

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    Default Re: Paypal Rant (Troubling trend we should be aware of)

    Quote Originally Posted by rickztahone View Post
    I was never aware of the program but it is disheartening to know that there is exclusion based on a certain business platform or goods.

    What do you believe may have led to this? Do you think they may have taken large losses with other sellers that sell these pet related products?
    Ricardo, I think its got to do with the live animal trade and bad news and complaints. Its hard to know as they don't formally make any announcements and don't even disclose to you why you are declined in any meaningful way. It took me multiple calls, and channels to find out what I did, but even then , there was no explanation why this is the case.

    al
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