I give up!

[mellysalz]

I think I am done with attempting to keep discus. In all my years in the fish hobby, I have never had so much difficulty in keeping fish alive. No matter how hard I try to do everything right and how much blood, sweat, and tears I put into it (LITERALLY blood, sweat, and tears!!!), I keeping failing. I think once my last 4 discus die (which I am sure will happen), I will go back to keeping angels in this tank.

I decided to throw a hail mary in hopes of getting some advice that may help. I posted a few days ago and received nothing, so hopefully now that I filled out the questionnaire maybe someone (ANYONE!) will help me out...

Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?

I originally bought 5 2-inch discus, and from day 1 they would not eat. They were very shy and all usually stayed near a bottom corner of the tank. I tried feeding them a variety of foods (frozen bloodworms, flakes, pellets, all which they either did not touch, or simply spit out. I then tried a frozen freshwater tropical "mix" which they seemed to at least eat a LITTLE of). They would often darken in color, but didn't always stay dark.


2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).

As stated above, they were not eating from the start, and often hide and would darken at times. After several days, I noticed that one had clamped fins. Soon after that, they all began quickly "drooping" over and quickly dying one by one until they were all gone. Never noticed any irregular poop, and they never had any of the other symptoms mentioned. I didn't want to jump into starting treatment, because I had nothing to go by, plus all water parameters checked out fine, and I was doing constant water changes. They died before I could even see any symptoms that fit a diagnosis. After this happened, I purchased 6 new larger discus from a different breeder. These seemed healthier, at least on day 1, but then these too were not eating anything I offered them. I finally bought some live blackworms, which they devoured! I was so happy, until I saw that these fish also tended to hide often, although not as much as the first group. I also saw that one fish (blue diamond) appeared to have a velvety texture to it, so I researched velvet simply due to the name. However, this fish did not have the symptoms of velvet that I researched. Another fish had 3 small white spots on its tail and one on the dorsal fin, but no other symptoms. I thought maybe ich/ick? but was hesitant to treat. I followed up with my water changes, raised the temp of the tank and hoped for the best. Then one morning I found that one of them (a different one which was asymptomatic) had died. I was quite surprised and upset. Then a few days later, I noticed that they all were breathing fast/heavily. Also, the "velvety" one's face started turning white as well as the lower end of it's body (like a crescent moon of white along the bottom edge of the body). I posted on this forum asking for any advice regarding these fish, but never received a reply. That is why I am filling out the questionairre now, even though another fish will probably be dead in the time it takes for me to finish this, hence why I didn't fill it out the first time. Sorry, but I had to vent.... Please understand.

3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.

When I saw that their breathing was labored, I decided to treat with PraziPro, thinking they may have gill flukes, I didn't want to wait and see them all dead like the last group. They survived another day, but did not appear any better, so one night, I tried a salt bath I had researched, and they all actually appeared to be doing better by the next day. However, since they were still appearing sick, I gave them another salt bath that night. The next morning, I find another one dead. Again, it was one that did not have symptoms, like the "velvety" one or the one with the spots. I was very upset with this death, as this was my favorite one remaining because he/she seemed to have a lot of personality compared to the others (deep down I believe it was a female but that's just what my heart tells me). She was always curious of me and would swim up close to look at me even when the others hid. She was the only one I had actually named. I named her "Precious" because she was by far the cutest/sweetest of the group. I NEVER thought SHE'D be the one to die! She was also a blue diamond, and as mean as it may sound I was hoping that if one of the blue diamonds had to go, that it would be the other one...


Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.

They were all described as 4-inch discus, although I feel they are a tad smaller. There were 6, but now I am down to 4. The tank has been running for a little over 4 years (it previously belonged to angelfish). They are living with a school of about 12 (I forget the exact number) of neon tetras I have owned for about a year.


5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).

50% water changes at LEAST every other day is the rule I stick to, but I usually end up doing it about 5 times a week. I also add on small water changes during the day as I feel needed (ex: when removing uneaten food).


6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?

The tank is 60 gallons and currently bare bottom and as I mentioned, has been running for over 4 years.


7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.

I use RO water mixed with dechlorinated unaged tap water


8. Parameters and water source;

Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


- temp 88

- ph 6.4

- ammonia reading 0

- nitrite reading 0

- nitrate reading 0

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- well water N/A

- municipal water 1/3

- RO water 2/3


9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently. No


10. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem so be as specific as you can.

It's hard to get them to eat anything other than the live blackworms, although they have picked at the discus flakes at times.


11. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.

I've included before and after pictures of my 2 discus with symptoms Before= when I first posted, After=now. It is hard to get a good pic of the blue diamond, since he prefers to just hide and watch me from a hole in the decor... As if to say, "Help me!" BUT I CAN'T! And again, I feel like a failure....

[Megalodon]

Is your RO water free of chlorine and ammonia?

[Pices]

Melissa,
I am by no means an expert. I’ve been keeping discus successfully for only a year and a half and I’m still learning. Prior to that, I was like you literally worrying constantly. The people here helped me turn it around and hopefully they will offer some more experienced advice.
In the meantime, have you checked for ph swing? I started out using ro water, and changed to aged heated water after learning that ph consistency is key. I also wonder if you introduced your discus to bad cooties that your other fish were used to that discus had not encountered and couldn’t fight off. I know how frustrating it is in the beginning. Maybe research these things here while waiting for the experts to tell you what your next move should be. It sounds like you have done your research in removing substrate and increased wc’s. That’s why I’m wondering about ph swing. In my case I stopped ro right away after talking to seller. Then they died much more slowly but it bought me time to find this site and make other corrections like wc’s and removing substrate.

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Melissa, sorry you did not get any replies sooner. Sounds like something is up with your water. Are you using a dechlorinator? How are you mixing your RO/tap mix? In the tank or a aging bin? Are you aging the water prior to a water change? What temp is the water change water?
Pat

[Pices]

ahhh the experts arrive! Hope your fish are back to their former glory soon Melissa! Good luck.

[Second Hand Pat]

ahhh the experts arrive! Hope your fish are back to their former glory soon Melissa! Good luck.

Not an expert Patty but thanks for the vote of confidence. TBH Al is my hero and will call on him if needed.
Pat

[mellysalz]

I work night shift so I'm a bit delirious now and desperately need sleep, but I didn't want to go to bed before thanking those who have responded and answering some questions.

I use 2/3 RO water mixed with 1/3 tap water and treat all water with dechlorinator in separate bins before adding it to the tank. I also test the pH to make sure that it matches what is currently in the tank before adding it in (I've found that the ratio of 2/3 RO water and 1/3 tap water usually always matches, which is why I stick with that ratio) and the ammonia (which has always been 0). I also heat the water to the same temp as the current tank water (which right now is 88) before adding...

[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks Melissa, do you mix the RO/tap before adding it to the tank?
Pat

[mellysalz]

Pat: Yes I mix them before adding to the tank.

[mellysalz]

So I've been thinking.... and suddenly, it hit me! I'm not sure if this is the reason why my discus are dying, but it's worth a shot, and I figured I'd run it by the group to see if anyone had any input....

I use a hose (as in a garden hose) with my RO filter... It was brand new though when I started doing this (not some old nasty hose that's been sitting around for years). I previously used sinks in my house, but after blowing 2 faucets and having to wash my dishes in the bathroom sink, I decided to just use the outside faucet and I bought a new hose for this purpose. I figured since the hose was new, and that I had already started using this "hose water" for another tank containing SA cichlids with no problems at all, it would be fine...

So anyways, after racking my brain trying to figure this out, I did some research and found out that hoses can contain harmful chemicals... and harvest bacteria if left in the sun. I thought all those drinking from a hose myths were false, but apparently I was wrong... I feel kind of stupid now, like I should have known better, but hindsight is 20/20...

So I found a different faucet inside the house to use and I'm going to test this theory out and see if I have any success.... I'll keep you posted.

[mellysalz]

Just to add, when using the hose I "wasted" the initial water for 10-15 min as a precaution, meaning I let it drain off somewhere else before adding to my water bins to add to the tank (I'm not as dumb as I sound/feel right now! I'm an RN who has literally saved lives... Can you understand how frustrating/depressing it is to fail at saving FISH lives???).

[Pices]

Melissa, I’m a nurse too, and I’ve killed discus! Oh the shame! It’s a lot harder without labs, x-rays, scans, and scopes, isn’t it? I hope you’re on the right track now. Any improvement?
Patty

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Melissa, I would not have thought to ask that question and you may have found your culprit. New garden hoses are full of fish unfriendly chemicals. Look for potable water hoses used for RVs.
Pat

[LizStreithorst]

I don't know everything but I agree with Pat. I think that this must be water related. Patty has the same concern. Do you put your RO/tap mix in a container and put a bubbler and heater in the container for 24 hrs before you do your WC? I really don't believe that the hose is the problem but it you think it is all you need to do it buy a drinking water safe hose.

Don't give up. We will figure this out.

[Adam S]

I used various garden hoses for a long time with no ill effect. I now buy water-safe Camco hoses on Amazon because they are cheap, something like $15 for 50 ft. Worth the investment if you are concerned.

What are you using for water aging? Why RO?