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Thread: Planted Discus tank planning

  1. #1
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    Default Planted Discus tank planning

    Hi,

    I have just started the planning process for a 65 gallon discus aquascape. I will be using an Ada 90 h, I have a lot of experience with planted aquariums and have been testing various plants in my current display tank running at discus temps. The thing I’m really getting different answers on is the number of discus. I want to also have a large school of cardinals as well say 30. I’ve heard everything from 2-3 up to 6 discus. If any of you guys could help that would be great I do t pretend to know alot about discus just what I’ve read during my planning.

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    MVP Oct.2015 discuspaul's Avatar
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    Default Re: Planted Discus tank planning

    Welcome to Simply Discus, Mitch

    5 is generally regarded as the minimum number of discus to be kept together so as to avoid, or at least minimize, any serious pecking order issues. (A mated pair being the exception).

    However, keeping 5 discus along with 30 cardinals in a 65 gallon, particularly if it's planted, even lightly, is likely pushing the bio-load limitations, and making it difficult to maintain high water quality & conditions, which are a must for being successful at discus-keeping.

    It would be best too if you did quite a bit more homework before getting started with discus - suggest you start with all of the Stickies (and The Video) located in the Discus Basics for Beginners Section.

    Suggest you also consider getting a larger tank, say a 75 gal. or larger, and if you wish to start with a planted set-up, you're strongly urged to start with nothing smaller than 4"-5" sized near adult discus, obtained from a quality source for supplying healthy, well-shaped fish. See SD's Sponsors section for such suppliers.

    Best of luck to you.

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    MVP Oct.2015 discuspaul's Avatar
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    Default Re: Planted Discus tank planning

    You could start with some additional discus homework right here by reading this:


    D-I-S-C-U-S - 6 CARDINAL RULES FOR NEWBIES TO FOLLOW


    First I'd just like to mention once again that discus are hardier than many people think, and are not difficult to keep, so long as one is prepared to accept and adhere to a few key practices that will provide the best chances of success with discus.

    This listing is recorded more or less in order of importance:

    1) - D - Do your homework well before delving into discus. Read and research all you can beforehand. Googling will certainly help, as well as spending a good deal of time reading the posts and threads on the simplydiscus.com forum, particularly the stickies in the 'Discus Basics for Beginners' section, which will provide you with much of the material you need to digest.

    2) - I - Investigate and learn of the best sources to get your discus stock. Find those breeders &/or importers that are long time, well-experienced, responsible, reputable, and known to supply high quality, healthy, and well-shaped discus. Buy your discus from one of these sources in order to insure that you get off on the best footing possible.
    This is the single, most important factor in succeeding with discus.
    The simplydiscus.com forum has a sponsors section which lists a good number of high quality discus suppliers in North America. Check it out.

    3) - S - Set up and plan to follow a strict regular routine of fresh water changes, tank wipe-downs and cleansing, vacuuming of wastes, and regular filter and media cleaning, changes, replacements, and maintenance. Be fully prepared for the kind of commitment it takes to produce and maintain the highest water quality and conditions that you can.

    4) - C - Carefully consider the type of tank set up you start with. Make sure the tank size is ample enough to start with 5 or 6 discus. Don't be tempted to begin with a tank of less than 55 or 60 gallons, and don't try to justify going smaller by just getting 1, 2, 3, or 4 discus for cost or other reasons.
    Wait till you have sufficient resources to get a proper-sized tank, and the suitable size and number of fish to insure continuing good health and harmonious discus sociability.
    Do not start with small, undersized, very juvenile fish which have not yet developed a more mature immune system, are more demanding to raise properly, and much more prone to health problems and other issues. Get fish of at least 3.0" in size, preferably larger.

    5) - U - Undertake to start off with a bare bottom tank, unless you're getting fully adult fish and have previous good experience with fish-keeping generally, and maintaining a planted tank in particular. If you must have some decor, limit yourself to a very thin sand substrate layer, and perhaps a piece of driftwood with just a couple of small plants attached, or one or two potted plants.
    Once you gain several months' of experience getting to know your discus' traits & behavior, and your discus get larger, then you may proceed to an aqua-scaped environment, to possibly include some other species of compatible discus tank-mates. Feed a varied diet, several times a day, and learn which foods will achieve a nutritious diet, by researching.

    6) - S - Simplify. Keep things as simple as you can to start. Don't complicate your start with discus, at least at first, by placing them in a heavily planted environment, using CO2 and a strict fertilization regime. Make sure your tank is fully cycled before adding the fish, and don't be tempted to alter or change the pH of your water, or modify your water conditions and parameters by using chemicals of any kind. No need to use RO water or adopt any other procedures that would tend to complicate what should be a simple start to your discus launch. If you plan on eventually having a community tank set-up, carefully research the species of other fish you'd like to keep with the discus, to insure they are able to withstand the higher discus temp of at least 82 F, and that they are fully compatible with discus.
    And do a complete and proper quarantine before adding any such tank-mates to your discus tank.

    Follow these 'rules', and there's little doubt you will succeed with discus !

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    Default Re: Planted Discus tank planning

    This is amazing information, this is why I wanted to check with this forum first before getting the tank and stand. Going to 75 gallons is no problem. I was already planning on going with adult discus as I had read it’s almost a must for fully planted tanks. Thanks so much.

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    Default Re: Planted Discus tank planning

    Good - understanding what needs to be done & having the right attitude to do just that to get it right is just great.

    So get the larger tank, get adult fish from a quality source, and keep the plantings at a minimalist level to begin with, and you`re on your way to being real pleased with your start-up experience with discus !

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    Default Re: Planted Discus tank planning

    This may sound like a silly question but I can't find the answer, what would you classify as an adult discus 4.5- 5 inches? I don't mind spending the money I just want to make sure I get the right size I have found in planted tanks trying to go the cheap route always ends up costing you more then dong it right.

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    Default Re: Planted Discus tank planning

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitch85 View Post
    This may sound like a silly question but I can't find the answer, what would you classify as an adult discus 4.5- 5 inches? I don't mind spending the money I just want to make sure I get the right size I have found in planted tanks trying to go the cheap route always ends up costing you more then dong it right.
    I believe most discus hobbyists would generally consider a 4.5"-5" fish to be near adult, or sub-adult, whereas adulthood is usually thought of to be fitting of fish over 5" in size to 6" or more - although age is a factor here- e.g. a 4.5" fish is usually in the 9 to 12 month age bracket, not yet into full adulthood, although spawning can take place at that size.

    In my experience, having kept discus of 4" to 5" in planted tanks, I've found that at that size they almost always lagged behind 5" or larger fish in growth and development - over 5" fish always did better so that's the size I would suggest to be kept by a novice to discus in a planted set-up
    .
    It bears saying that planted environments always require stricter attention to good tank cleansing & w/c routines to maintain reasonably good water quality & conditions than what is needed in minimalist or bare-bottom tanks.

    Regrettably planted set-ups often do not receive that essential cleanliness - some neglect often takes place over time, at the risk of discus' health in the long run.
    Last edited by discuspaul; 06-06-2018 at 04:05 PM.

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    Default Re: Planted Discus tank planning

    Wow, You've already been so helpful. I was curious I'm not sure how familiar you are with planted aquascapes. I currently do a 50% water change on my tanks twice a week as I hate algae. Do adult require as many water changes as younger discus? the plan is to setup an island aquascape Thus leaving the front and sides with only a very thin layer of sand where the discus can be fed and make clean up much easier (avoid as much junk in the plants as possible) I also would like to do mostly plants that get their nutrients from the water column and keep aquascape soil to a minimum. If you have any more discus wisdom I'm all ears I'm reading as much as I can on the site. I rather plan a lot and get it right, then rush and end up with sick fish and a algae invested tank.

    Thanks for all the advice its really appreciated

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Planted Discus tank planning

    As to my familiarity with planted aquascapes is concerned, I've kept freshwater tropicals in planted tanks for well over 50 years, since I was a young teen (on & off of course), and I've also kept discus, mostly in planted set-ups strangely enough, on & off as well, since the late 1970's.

    Adult discus have better developed immune systems, are hardier healthwise, and therefore can better tolerate less than ideal water quality & conditions than smaller, younger discus. So no, they may not, or do not generally need, the quantity and frequency of wc's that young, growing discus do.
    Having said that, in a planted set-up, the level/range/quantity of such plantings & other décor, the type of substrate used, and other factors, play a large part in how much range, or differential, there can be between the tank cleansing & w/c regimes of adults vis-a-vis young discus or juveniles - I hope you get my drift.

    Put simply for some illustration, if a tank is heavily planted, has a soil type substrate, and the tank cleansing routine is irregular at best, the discus in that environment, whether larger or smaller, need a significantly larger percentage & frequency of wcs, than those kept in a minimalist planted set-up, using say only a pool filter sand substrate for easy cleaning.
    When I say larger or smaller discus, I'm talking about fish of 5"-6" in size, vs.fish of 3" -5" .

    IMO, under no circumstances should discus of under 3.5" be kept by a novice to discus starting up with a planted environment - that's a disaster waiting to occur - they should be grown out further in a bare-bottom only.

    Your approach as set out above seems quite acceptable if getting discus of 4" in size or larger, and you reconsider using any form of soil under sand substrate.
    Make no additions which could develop into a potential harbor for undesirable/harmful bacteria. Use root tab ferts in the sand coupled with liquid or dry ferts within the water column.

    P.S. The parameters I' suggesting for you is to do are: no less than 50 % w/cs - at least 3-4 X per week, along with tank glass wipe-downs & substrate vacs with each w/c.
    But of course, more is always better, if you can manage wcs of 75% or more on a daily basis, do it.
    Last edited by discuspaul; 06-06-2018 at 06:31 PM.

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    Homesteader Adam S's Avatar
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    Default Re: Planted Discus tank planning

    If you do the island in the middle, you may want to forgo the sand altogether. The island could be contained to a glass planter box, giving you a relatively easy to clean display that's viewable from three sides. It's always a balance of what's best for the fish versus what looks best, as they rarely agree.

    On a side note, that ADA tank looks a bit on the weak side. A 10mm braceless tank with that footprint should have a water level no higher than 16.75"/425mm.

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    Default Re: Planted Discus tank planning

    I never thought about a glass planter box, that is actually a really brilliant idea as the caps between it and the rocks could be filled with plants that pull their nutrients from the water column. I would def want sand even tho its more work, I just personally don't (my wife doesnt like lol) bare bottom tanks since it will be in our main living area. This is the most exciting part, planning and getting advice before spending the money. Measure twice cut once.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Planted Discus tank planning

    Good advice from Adam - thanks for your contribution, Adam

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    Default Re: Planted Discus tank planning

    Sounds like you have the idea, but here's what I meant by "planter box" if it wasn't clear. http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...-Nhamunda-Blue. The panes of glass Larry attached to the bottom at right angles to the walls are important for rigidity, though they don't need to be much wider than 2"-3". They should go inside of the box, as they won't do anything if the walls are on top of them.

    Thanks, Paul. It's great to hear advice from someone that has had long-term success with planted discus aquariums.

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    Registered Member Pices's Avatar
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    Default Re: Planted Discus tank planning

    I’m just lurking here, but wow! You guys are good!
    Patty

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    MVP Oct.2015 discuspaul's Avatar
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    Default Re: Planted Discus tank planning

    Quote Originally Posted by Pices View Post
    I’m just lurking here, but wow! You guys are good!
    Patty
    Nice to hear that, Patty - we're just trying to help out - thanks for chiming in.

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