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Thread: 20 Gallon Long, Have you popped the top and bottom frames and made them rimless?

  1. #16
    Gold Member FischAutoTechGarten's Avatar
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    Default Re: 20 Gallon Long, Have you popped the top and bottom frames and made them rimless?

    Tackled the last Tetra over an early lunch today. It took about 45 minutes. I heated first, cut the 10 relief points, heated again, then started breaking down the silicon bonds with the plastic scraper, heated again, then started peeling the sections off. No stress at all... and all went very easy.

    On my post inspection, I found the union between two of the panes at the top corner to be slightly loose... meaning I could press on the pane and move it a bit. I focused on this area because I could see before I broke down this last Tetra tank that the panes weren't perfectly flush at the corner like the other tanks before it. I'm going to clean it up and make it a leak test candidate for a week along with the one of the Aqueons.

    20LxTetraLooseCorner.jpg

    This may be the tank that I use as the Sump, since it will never be filled to capacity like the other tanks. Maybe I'll just put frames back on it... but in my setup, the sump will be seen..... so I was wanting to maintain the 'look'. Probably should choose function over form in this instance...

    Note: I found an error in one of my earlier posts back in July and I can't go back and edit it now: "All 4 are the same brand purchased at the same time." That statement is not true. 3 of those tanks were Tetras that were purchased some 3 years ago. 1 of those tanks was an Aqueon that was purchased much later. 3 other Aqueons were purchased this summer... and of course a new one last week after I cracked the very first Aqueon. But yes, every single one of them was purchased at various $1 per gallon sales.
    Last edited by FischAutoTechGarten; 10-25-2018 at 03:45 PM. Reason: Added a note to clarify something I incorrectly stated in a previous posts to this thread.
    Peter
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  2. #17
    Gold Member FischAutoTechGarten's Avatar
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    Default Re: 20 Gallon Long, Have you popped the top and bottom frames and made them rimless?

    I took what I thought were the two tanks that needed no silicon work at all... One Tetra and One Aqueon and began the leak testing.

    I moved them from my shop/office/lab and took them to the covered sealed concrete patio back home. I'm using dense 3/4" Styrofoam beneath the tanks. Started filling with a garden hose.

    20Lx2TanksFilling.jpg

    I succeeded in filling them to within 1/2" to the top of the rim, which is probably more water than they will have in use.

    20Lx2TanksSuccessfullyFilled.jpg

    Decided to put barriers around them so that my two pet dogs won't drink the water, bother the tanks or cut themselves on the unfinished edges. I will leave these like this until next weekend. Probably run a filter in each to see if any micro vibrations cause issues. Then I'll clean them up really good with razor blades, acetone, Windex, etc...

    20Lx2TanksRestingFullWithBarriers.jpg

    I'm going to start the repairs on the cracked Aqueon and the Tetra with the loose corner this upcoming week. Holding off on de-rimming the remaining 3 Aqueons.
    Peter
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  3. #18
    Gold Member FischAutoTechGarten's Avatar
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    Default Re: 20 Gallon Long, Have you popped the top and bottom frames and made them rimless?

    The tanks did not leak at all after almost 2 weeks.. even with an HOB and airline installed. So, I'm calling the project a success. Drained them and stored them and will test the remaining ones next.

    For now, I won't be updating the de-rimming effort any further. Hope the thread was interesting and informative.
    Peter
    Cuerpo en Green Valley, Arizona, USA y Corazón en Alamos, Sonora, Mexico

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    Homesteader Adam S's Avatar
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    Default Re: 20 Gallon Long, Have you popped the top and bottom frames and made them rimless?

    Great series of posts. Did you decide to leave them braceless?

  5. #20
    Gold Member FischAutoTechGarten's Avatar
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    Default Re: 20 Gallon Long, Have you popped the top and bottom frames and made them rimless?

    Yes, with four passing the muster, I'll probably leave them braceless… I'm not worried about the bowing with just 11" of water height.. We will see.. I still have to build the stand. None of this will come on line for more than 6 months, so I might decide otherwise.
    Peter
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    Homesteader Adam S's Avatar
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    Default Re: 20 Gallon Long, Have you popped the top and bottom frames and made them rimless?

    With a water height of 11", the tanks have safety factors of 6.3 for the sides and 3.9 for the bottom. 7.6 is ideal but above 5 is decently safe (mandatory for rimless imo). Because the tank bottoms are only semi-floated, bottom safety factor isn't super important (within reason). Fwiw, 10.3" is the max height for 7.6.

    Good luck and make sure to keep us up to date on your progress.

  7. #22
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    Default Re: 20 Gallon Long, Have you popped the top and bottom frames and made them rimless?

    Seems like a lot of work Peter ! You are far more ambitious that I would have been with these. Lol. I do wonder though since they are only 20 gals what it would have cost to just order glass cut to the sizes you needed and assembled it yourself? It probably would have cost more than the 20 gal s did but would be easier I would think?

    al
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  8. #23
    Homesteader Adam S's Avatar
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    Default Re: 20 Gallon Long, Have you popped the top and bottom frames and made them rimless?

    Around here, it's a little under $100... 9.5 sqft at $10/sqft for 3/16" and 1/4" glass.

  9. #24
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    Default Re: 20 Gallon Long, Have you popped the top and bottom frames and made them rimless?

    Yikes! Thats pretty steep... ok.. remove frames! lol

    al
    AquaticSuppliers.com Freeze Dried BlackWorms and other foods your Discus will Love!!!


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  10. #25
    Gold Member FischAutoTechGarten's Avatar
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    Default Re: 20 Gallon Long, Have you popped the top and bottom frames and made them rimless?

    Quote Originally Posted by brewmaster15 View Post
    Yikes! Thats pretty steep... ok.. remove frames! lol

    al
    Yeah. It was somewhat a matter of costs. However, I already had 4 of them in my possession. Purchasing the other 4 was a matter of spending $80 + Tax more (got them all, older and newer ones, on $1 a gallon sales)... Too, I just don't have confidence in my ability to cut and assemble glass... not for 7 or 8 aquariums. I'll repair the one broken one just to see if I have what it takes to do a rather simple glass repair. I also have a 10gallon that has a tiny leak at the bottom (of course any leak makes a tank unsuitable)... I will try repairing that one as well. But that's the extent of my glass work. I'm good with breaking plastic and peeling silicon. LOL.
    Peter
    Cuerpo en Green Valley, Arizona, USA y Corazón en Alamos, Sonora, Mexico

    learning never stops

  11. #26
    Gold Member FischAutoTechGarten's Avatar
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    Default Re: 20 Gallon Long, Have you popped the top and bottom frames and made them rimless?

    I'm going to update this thread.. to show that I also succeeded in drilling these tanks (with one casualty).. Some of this info is posted under another thread I have on the SUMP design. That one is here and displays the fotos better: http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...eads-Too-Noisy...

    But I thought it was good to repeat this info in this thread as it's all about cutting and drilling:

    I finished all of the Bulkheads. Twin Sump Sections (2 X 20L) required a 1" Bulkhead, which was a 1 3/4" hole.
    Each of the 20L tanks (4 X 20L) required a 1/2" bulkhead supply for a 1 1/8" hole at the very top, another 1/2" bulkhead drain for a 1 1/8" hole in the middle of an end piece, and 2 X 3/4" bulkheads for gravity feed to sump which was 2 1-1/2" holes at the very top on an end.

    The places where I was drilling along the top, just 1/4" to 3/8" from the top edge made me nervous.. So I created jigs to sandwich the glass.. There was a single 1-1/8" hole jig and a double 1-1/2" hole jig. The 1/2" drain hole in the center of an end piece did not require a jig.

    Single 1-1/8" jig arrangement for 1/2" bulkhead along the top.
    Attachment 127827

    No jig arrangment for single 1-1/8" hole in center of end piece.
    Attachment 127828

    This is what happens when you rush and think you can drill the last 1-1/8" hole along the top without a jig... Lesson learned... Purchased 8 tanks for this 6 tank project. Broke the first one removing the rims... Now broke the last one doing the drilling.
    Attachment 127829

    Twin 1-1/2" Hole Jig for the Twin 3/4" Bulkheads along the top. 2 big holes close together, near the edge, through thin glass.
    Attachment 127830

    Results for Twin 1-1/2" Holes. Good on all 4 20L aquariums.
    Attachment 127831

    This is what each of the 4 X 20L looks like with the rims off, silicon cleaned up (not a final cleanup.. will do it one more time), and the bulkheads fitted. The water level sat about 7/8" just below the rim when full of water... A little lower than I wanted, but I wanted the security of the twin 3/4" bulkheads to minimize plugging of lines with plant leaves.
    Attachment 127832

    Sumps are less dramatic. One has a 1-1/2" hole for the 1/2" bulkhead for the pump and a 1-3/4" hole for the 1" bulkhead to connect the tanks. The other half of the sump just has the single 1-3/4" hole for the other 1" bulkhead to connect the tanks.
    Attachment 127833
    Last edited by FischAutoTechGarten; 05-27-2020 at 08:12 PM.
    Peter
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    learning never stops

  12. #27
    Gold Member FischAutoTechGarten's Avatar
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    Default Re: 20 Gallon Long, Have you popped the top and bottom frames and made them rimless?

    I didn't take pictures... But I have performed leak test with bulkheads installed on 2 of the 4.... they sat for a few days... wanted them to sit for weeks.. but I filled them in a bad spot and had to get them moved. I'll get them all tested soon. Of course, they were all tested previously (7 of the 8) once they were de-rimmed, but before the bulkhead drilling... That tests lasted a minimum of 2 weeks for the tanks (some even longer). I'm not nervous to use these guys!

    Soon, I'll start the rack build thread! The original project has been scaled back.. Just 4 aquariums... but the sump has grown to a dual chamber 2 aquarium unit (hence the need for 6 tanks in total). Yeah I even de-rimmed the sumps.... because back then, the system was going to have more tanks and be part of a hybrid hydroponics setup... scratched that idea as too complicated... and the whole downsized project is moving to my little den/office in the back of our home.
    Last edited by FischAutoTechGarten; 05-27-2020 at 08:45 PM.
    Peter
    Cuerpo en Green Valley, Arizona, USA y Corazón en Alamos, Sonora, Mexico

    learning never stops

  13. #28
    Gold Member FischAutoTechGarten's Avatar
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    Default Re: 20 Gallon Long, Have you popped the top and bottom frames and made them rimless?

    Just thought I'd follow-up this thread to show you all how the tanks have held up.

    All 8 x 20 gallon long 'homemade rimless' aquariums are still in use... 6 as display tanks and 2 as a dual chamber wet/dry filter. This photo was taken April 27, 2022 (looks nearly the same even today June 18, 2022).

    Never any breaks or leaks. Continue to use them with full confidence. Using 1/4" cork under each glass bottom.

    FishNook04272022.jpg
    Peter
    Cuerpo en Green Valley, Arizona, USA y Corazón en Alamos, Sonora, Mexico

    learning never stops

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