Need some advice on what to do with discus that had the plague

[candymancan]

about 2 or 3 years ago i purchased a doscus from petco as i felt sorry for it due to the conditions it was in.. I put it into my 30g quarentine tank for 2 weeks and it was eating and perfectly fine.

I introduced it into my main tank and within 3 days all my 7, 7 inch discus but 2 got sick and they all died about 3 or 4 days later but 1 not counting the two that never got sick. Deff discus plague all the symptoms and almost 100% mortality.

I froze the bodies as i was pissed.. went to petco and plopped em on the managers table and he offered me 6 discus to replace them we waited 2 months before he ordered them.. All 6 of them died as well.. when introduced into my tank.. same symptoms as before so its clear the one discus that recovered in my tank was a carrier. However the other 2 that never got sick im not sure if they are carriers.. I couldnt get nyself to cull them as im not the kind of person who finds it easy to kill any living animal like that.. Sorry but that just how i am.. So i just never got discus again.. I waited 9 months hoping that it would go away.

After 9 months i purchased two adult 7 inch discus from a local guy and they never got sick.. They were originally from kennydiscus aparently. So now i had 4 discus that never got sick in my tank and 1 that did but recovered from when it all started a year prior.. I figured hey these 2 new discus not getting sick maybe the disease is gone !! So i went out bought 4 bright orange 6-7inch discus and after all the quarentining i put them into my main tank.

3 days later they all got suck... *** man.. 3 outa 4 died.. So now i have 6 discus.. 4 who never got sick to begin with.. 2 who did and recovered.. If i had known the disease was still lingering i wouldnt hsbe bought the orange ones.. But when those 2 i got a week prior never got sick i figured it was gone.


Anyway its been 11 months now.. Im getting sick of having a 135 gallons 6 foot long fish tank thats full of small fish and plants and only a handfull of discus. I bought this tank 2 years ago for the purpose of having like 10 discus in it.

Im not sure what to do.. Are the carriers the two that recovered ? Or are they and the 4 that never got sick carriers.. Im assuming the carriers would just be the 2 that got it but lived.. But i might be wrong ?

Im thinking of taking the two in question out.. putting them in my 30g 36 inch long tank and leaving them in there.. Buying 10 discus online and see what happens..Maybe put 2 or 3 in the main tank and the rest into my 90g tank and watch and see if the 2/3 get sick or not.. If they dont then i know the 4 who never got suck aremt carriers and i can introduce the rest into that tank. And just keep the 2 carriers in the 30g indeffinietly.


Sorry for a long post.. but im wondering what you guys think? And please as i mentioned i cant cull my fish.. Sure i could jist kill my fish with no remorse and start my tank over again... And yes i know buying discus to have them suffer and die is cruel too.. I just dont know what to do anymore.. I dont want my new discus to die.. it hurts me and my wallet... but i also cant get myself to killing the ones i have that are doing fine.. I also cant sell them because itll just spread it to other peoples tanks.

Do you think my idea of seperating the 2 who had it but recovered and testing the other 4 who never had it by introducing 2 or 3 other discus in the tank is a good idea ? I cant be sure if they all carry it or just the two..

[Filip]

After all the problems you've encountered and lessons you've learned , it seems like a quite simple decision here Candyman.
Give all your leftover discus , fish and plants to your nearest LFS in an exchange for food and other tank necesities , nuke the tank and filters with bleach , and start over fresh with a new batch of 15 or so discus .
I wouldn't risk it any other way IIWY . Especially not after all the disease problems you've been through .

[candymancan]

Hmm maybe i can give petco the discus and hand them the same disease they gave me LOL.

But i dunno if i wanna give them 5 adult discus 50 neons and other fish like that for nothing.. Ill be just giving them hundreds of dollars worth of fish

Uhg this has been nothing but hell for years.. This disease whatever it is is such BS..

I almost feel like buying 30 Juvies and seeing how many survive to just make my numbers to where i want and be done with it.

I really wanna to experiement and try removing the two who i know are carriers because they got sick and recovered and buying like 2 or 3 juvies and see if they get sick with the others who never had it.

Is there a chance the 4 who never had it are not carriers even though they have been exposed to the two who have ? Because in biology i know there are two ways to be immune.. One is to just be immune and never catch the disease at all.. Two is to be asymptomatic and immune but carry it. Im hoping the 4 who never got it at all are just somehow immune and not carriers.

[Mattgoanna]

Hard to say what is the best way forward. I am thinking that maybe you could try introducing new fish with an immune booster like easy-life voogle. This stuff does have a significant impact on the fish. I keep a lot of shrimp and mixing them is often a big issue. The voogle definitely reduces / eliminates any deaths.

[Pices]

After all the problems you've encountered and lessons you've learned , it seems like a quite simple decision here Candyman.
Give all your leftover discus , fish and plants to your nearest LFS in an exchange for food and other tank necesities , nuke the tank and filters with bleach , and start over fresh with a new batch of 15 or so discus .
I wouldn't risk it any other way IIWY . Especially not after all the disease problems you've been through .

I agree 100%. That is exactly what I did and I’ve been happy, very happy since. I bought my new discus from a sponsor here and what a difference! No regrets. The initial guilt I felt over re homing my fish didn’t last once I saw my new batch. Patty

[Filip]

You gotta have some local FB fish group where you can sell or trade fish. You may even end up with enough money to start over with 10 juvvies without any additional costs , since yours are already grown .Just a thought.

[Second Hand Pat]

I know this is not going to sit well but I personally could not pass on fish which have could have a dire effect on other person's fish. What if that other person is a kid. I would gently put the fish down, sterilize everything and begin anew.
Pat

[nolefan]

I agree with Pat put them down bleach everything and start from scratch .. if you want to experiment you’re just asking from r more anguish

[discuspaul]

I know this is not going to sit well but I personally could not pass on fish which have could have a dire effect on other person's fish. What if that other person is a kid. I would gently put the fish down, sterilize everything and begin anew.
Pat

I'm in full agreement with Pat.

And should you decide to do that, the most important, absolutely key thing you can do to avoid future problems such as you've experienced to date, is to get only quality fish from a well-known fully reliable source for supplying quality, healthy fish, such as from one of the sponsors here on Simply. Avoid Petco and other suspect sources like the plague !

[candymancan]

Well ima try what i originally thought. I have a 27g hexagon in storage i pulled out and i setup with my 92g aquariums filters. rocks and some plants and i bought 13 2 inch discus. I moved the two discus that got sick and recovered to my other 30g tabk.. And i left yhe other discus that never got sick at all.

What im going to do is put like 10 of the 2 inch juvies into that 27g tank i setup.. and put 3 into the 135g tank with the discus who never got sick.

There is a small chsnce that because those discus never got sick to begin eith that there simply immune and arent carriers. I know there is a chsnce to be immune but also carry it. but well see.

If the 3 juvies dont get sick then it will confirm what i suspected and the carriers are just the two who got sick and recovered. When this happens ill move the other 10 into the main tank and just keep those 2 carriers in that 30g tank permanently.

No i wouldnt sell carrier discus to anyone thats stupid.. itll just cause anguish to other people lol..

Tbh Id rather just put the 5 discus in question into my 92g tank. its more thrn big enough for it. But that tank has 2 adukt anglefish and 2 juvie anglefish and im not sure if this disease will affect those two angles.

[brewmaster15]

Honestly I don't think you had "The Plague" I don't doubt you had disease issues but I do doubt it was that "Plague" and that you have fish that are carriers.Theres no way you can know though.Anytime hobbyists have a bad disease issue they think its that dreaded disease.This is because so many pathogens cause similar symptoms. The original
"Plague " may have been a virus, thats whats thought....but to assume your fish got it now is largely guesswork.

My personal decision would have been cull the sick fish if I thought it was something extremely contagious like plague.Its the responsible and ethical thing to do in my opinion. I would bleach everything and start over...I have been down that path so I don't say it lightly.
You don't want to do that which I can respect. Your options then are to keep the fish and deal with potential future infections or pass them on to someone else. If you pass them on,the ethical and honest thing would be to level with the new owners about the past and your suspicions about the disease.

If you keep them.Understand the "Original Plague" was an extremely virulent disease and was airborn by most accounts. If you keep them anywhere in your home you risk contaminating any new tank of fish. If you manage to isolate them spacially you will most likely be the vector one day for it to spread from tank to tank.

You could send a fish to a lab next time they are ill but that would be a one way ticket. I can provide you a name if you want of a reputable pathologist.You might get a concrete answer that way.

My post probably is not what you want to hear but its not just for you.Its for others in your boat.Many of us have faced similiar issues and many of us will.

hth,
Al

[candymancan]

curious what makes you think the current fish arent carriers.. I see ppl say what you did ALL the time.. and franjly that gets old... just as old as im sure you see people say plague.. But let me ask you.

Day 1 i buy a petco discus.. it passes 2 weeks of quaruntine.. 3 days after introduced into main tank 7 discus get ill.. black.. hard labor breathing.. slime coat falling off.. Within 3 or 4 days they all die but 1 and one who didnt get sick at all. I wait 2 months.. I get 6 discus from petco replace the losses.. They pass quaruntine.. Introduce them and the same exact incubation period and death rate begins again.. 3 days to show symptoms.. Another 3 or 4 and they ALL died 100% mortality.

I wait 6 months. I buy 2 more discus.. Same thing again 3 days they show symptoms.. Another 3 or 4 they die.. Except this time i tried potasium perm.. And still nothing.

I wait another 9 months.. Buy 2 discus.. they dont get sick i figure its gone.. I buy 4 more.. all 4 get sick in 3 days.. 3 out of 4 die in 3 or 4 more days just like the others.

So i end up with 2 discus who lived out of a total of 21 discus.

Please do tell me its flukes.. or some parasite lol... Sorry for being a smartass but yea.

As for it being airborne.. I doubt it is.. I also dont think its spread by water but more physical contact. As ive used the same nets and tubing and plants to drain and refill my tanks with the angle fish and they never got sick.

Im not saying its 100% plague.. but plague is a general term for a disease that highely contagious and unknown.. You do know that right ? Since to this day in decades not one person has proven its a virus or bacteria and giving it a offical name the term plague will habe to stand.

Yes please give me the name.number. Id be happy to mail off a discus to someone to find out for sure what it is.. But it sure as hell aint a parasite.. If it were all the fish would get sick.. there would be no immune discus like i have observed.

Its got to be bacterial or viral.. And all virus and most bacteria that infect animals do not live for more then a few days most only surive hours without a host so it cant be (floating) in the water.. or stuck on the glass it needs a host just like all virus and bacteria.. So if you wait 9-12 month between then like i have it should be gone UNLESS there is a host to carry it. which is what ive observed.

But as ive mentioned.. There are two kinds of carriers.. symptomatic and asymptomatic.. Some get sick and recover but still carry it.. For example Humans who get ebola those that recover have immunity now but they still carry the virus in their eyes and semen and probably deep in the bones like other virus.

Some however never get sick and are completetly immune.. Some never get sick but carry the virus and spread it like someone who is sick.

Im telling you this is whats going on in my tank.. Which is why i want to experiment.. Removing the 2 known carriers.. Lesving the ones who never got sick... Introducing new discus and see if they get sick or not.. If they dont it proves my theory.. If they do then the others have it as well.

Ima let you guys know what happens in the next 3 or 4 daya.. If it works or doesnt work..

It doesnt ill just take all the fish out and kill em and start over completetly.. if it does work.. well then im lucky and its just the two im suspecting

[brewmaster15]

curious what makes you think the current fish arent carriers.. I see ppl say what you did ALL the time.. and franjly that gets old... just as old as im sure you see people say plague.. But let me ask you.

Day 1 i buy a petco discus.. it passes 2 weeks of quaruntine.. 3 days after introduced into main tank 7 discus get ill.. black.. hard labor breathing.. slime coat falling off.. Within 3 or 4 days they all die but 1 and one who didnt get sick at all. I wait 2 months.. I get 6 discus from petco replace the losses.. They pass quaruntine.. Introduce them and the same exact incubation period and death rate begins again.. 3 days to show symptoms.. Another 3 or 4 and they ALL died 100% mortality.

I wait 6 months. I buy 2 more discus.. Same thing again 3 days they show symptoms.. Another 3 or 4 they die.. Except this time i tried potasium perm.. And still nothing.

I wait another 9 months.. Buy 2 discus.. they dont get sick i figure its gone.. I buy 4 more.. all 4 get sick in 3 days.. 3 out of 4 die in 3 or 4 more days just like the others.

So i end up with 2 discus who lived out of a total of 21 discus.

Please do tell me its flukes.. or some parasite lol... Sorry for being a smartass but yea.

As for it being airborne.. I doubt it is.. I also dont think its spread by water but more physical contact. As ive used the same nets and tubing and plants to drain and refill my tanks with the angle fish and they never got sick.

Im not saying its 100% plague.. but plague is a general term for a disease that highely contagious and unknown.. You do know that right ? Since to this day in decades not one person has proven its a virus or bacteria and giving it a offical name the term plague will habe to stand.

Yes please give me the name.number. Id be happy to mail off a discus to someone to find out for sure what it is.. But it sure as hell aint a parasite.. If it were all the fish would get sick.. there would be no immune discus like i have observed.

Its got to be bacterial or viral.. And all virus and most bacteria that infect animals do not live for more then a few days most only surive hours without a host so it cant be (floating) in the water.. or stuck on the glass it needs a host just like all virus and bacteria.. So if you wait 9-12 month between then like i have it should be gone UNLESS there is a host to carry it. which is what ive observed.

But as ive mentioned.. There are two kinds of carriers.. symptomatic and asymptomatic.. Some get sick and recover but still carry it.. For example Humans who get ebola those that recover have immunity now but they still carry the virus in their eyes and semen and probably deep in the bones like other virus
Some however never get sick and are completetly immune.. Some never get sick but carry the virus and spread it like someone who is sick.

Im telling you this is whats going on in my tank.. Which is why i want to experiment.. Removing the 2 known carriers.. Lesving the ones who never got sick... Introducing new discus and see if they get sick or not.. If they dont it proves my theory.. If they do then the others have it as well

Are you looking for an arguement or are you naturally this rude when you post looking for help and advice? I suggest you get a cup of coffee and come back latter after it kickd in...

.. I see ppl say what you did ALL the time.. and franjly that gets old... just as old as im sure you see people say plague.. But let me ask you.

Theres a feature on the forum where you can read the back posts a member has made. When I am trying to help someone I use it to better understand the member and help them better.Based.on your back posts and this thread I don't think you have Plague and Plague carriers.I think you have made a lot of mistakes that many people including myself made along the way. .

What do I know though?

You asked for advice and I gave it politely and honestly. If that bothers you in some way Im sorry it wasnt my intention. Helping you was.

Regards,
Al

[Paul Sabucchi]

The advice Al has given is born from a lot of experience, we have all incoured in mishaps and had to learn the hard way that mother nature does not necessarily follow our human logic. Although it is apparent that you are dealing with some kind of pathogen short of employing the services of the pathologist recommended by Al you will not know if it is viral or bacterial, and if the latter is it some kind of mycobacteria that can stay dormant for a very long time and resist to most antiseptics or could it be a species of bacteria that produces spores?
As extreme as it may seem the only surefire way to be reasonably sure to have left the problem behind is to start with a clean slate. If you want to keep the suspected carriers again the advice given by Al (in the video that Joey put on YouTube) to keep that tank in a different room as far as possible from the other fish with separate equipment and taking sensible measures to avoid cross contamination would be the best way to go.
When I was at college the infectious diseases department was divided in 2 separate units, bacteriology was on the 2nd floor and virology in the basement. This was done after one too many times a bug got inadvertently carried and infected/destroyed the cell cultures used for viruses, and we were all professionals with an understanding of what was at stake

[candymancan]

Well its been 5 days now here is what happened. The disease whatever it is is still here even after almost 12 months of waiting and using a pond sized UV sterilizer that whole time.

The two test discus got sick but not very badly not like im used too.. I just said F it and put the other 11 discus in the tank and put my 2 suspects back in since clearly it isnt them only spreading it.

In 5 days only 7 of the 13 discus Juvies got sick.. Two of the golden discus caught it horribly fast within hours and in 2 days died.. Typical symptoms. hard breathing.. slime coat. fin rot and eventually body rot then death in 2 days..

Both blue diamonds got it but one recovered in 24 hrs. The other is still out in the open not getting worse or better. The other 2 Golden discus both fully recovered in 3 days only having minor symptoms.

The 5 red discus i got none of them caught it. The 2 leopards one got it but recovered in 2 days.

So the only sick discus i have left is the blue one who has fin rot still but hes still eating The rest are all eating and doing fine ( well one golden isnt eating much).

Seems this batcj of 13 discus are all immume or partially immune 2 had no immunity at all and litterally died so fast i couldnt do anything.

For the fin rot ive been using furan 2 for 2 days now. As well as malachite green to keep fungus away from the fins. Honestly these are the best results ive had. Besides the 3 immune adults ive had out of about 20-25 discus ive seen 90-95% mortality.

Now its only 15%.

So im happy now i finally have the discus numbers i wanted... Geezus man.

Since itd been 5 days im ruling out any other death or others getting sick as by now it would have happened already.. Im betting that last one who has it the blue one will recover but well see.

At least now i dont hsve to tear down the entire tank.. which is something i didnt want to do

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